[micrors4]

I test drove a newer TSX, probably 2011, and it was pretty fun.  The V6 has lots of power, but I'm not a fan of the flappy-paddles because they felt slower when changing gear because of the lack of a clutch pedal so the computer decides when to actually shift, it felt like I was just suggesting when to shift and then it decided when it was actually time to make the change.  Honestly I think you are going to have a hard time finding a sporty, automatic car in your price range that is good, I would just say screw it and get an STI or Evo, justify it by manuals lasting longer and getting better gas mileage.  You could get the wagon version of the STI to haul people around in if you need the room but you still get the performance not to mention there is a huge tuning industry around them so you can always get more power out of it if you want more than the base models 265HP.

 

[Kirosia]

I'm hesitant to get a stick, I'm sure I could learn it quickly (been driving an auto for eight years, clean record), but I also live near Boston. Harsh roads, stop and go traffic, I admittedly hate driving the SUV.
 
I looked at the Evo X MR briefly, gas, insurance, and maintenance would likely kill me. Same with the Ralliart, and the interior is bad.

 

[planx]

Quote:

I test drove a newer TSX, probably 2011, and it was pretty fun.  The V6 has lots of power, but I'm not a fan of the flappy-paddles because they felt slower when changing gear because of the lack of a clutch pedal so the computer decides when to actually shift, it felt like I was just suggesting when to shift and then it decided when it was actually time to make the change.  Honestly I think you are going to have a hard time finding a sporty, automatic car in your price range that is good, I would just say screw it and get an STI or Evo, justify it by manuals lasting longer and getting better gas mileage.  You could get the wagon version of the STI to haul people around in if you need the room but you still get the performance not to mention there is a huge tuning industry around them so you can always get more power out of it if you want more than the base models 265HP.

 
The STi comes in Auto 

 I just suggest getting a WRX instead as it is significantly cheaper, tad better on gas, and similar power ratings (of course the STi has more power and faster track performance).
Quote:

I'm hesitant to get a stick, I'm sure I could learn it quickly (been driving an auto for eight years, clean record), but I also live near Boston. Harsh roads, stop and go traffic, I admittedly hate driving the SUV.
 
I looked at the Evo X MR briefly, gas, insurance, and maintenance would likely kill me. Same with the Ralliart, and the interior is bad.

 
Boston? Look at Vancouver! 2nd most congested city in North America! I'm still alive, barely 

 
If you're looking at those cars, get something cheaper like the Subaru BRZ or Scion FR-S? Way better gas and insurance with the two, I just don't know about the insurance as it is a sporty two-door coupe...

 

[Kirosia]

I like the BRS/FRS, seen a few  locally, but at 25K+ new, and a first gen model, I'd rather something more tried and true (and cheap if possible).  I've asked some of my old high school friends to let me try stick (they're all enthusiasts),  but they're all too busy.
 
And I'll probably have to go with cost-effectiveness in the end, which contradicts fun.

 

[planx]

Quote:

I like the BRS/FRS, seen a few  locally, but at 25K+ new, and a first gen model, I'd rather something more tried and true (and cheap if possible).  I've asked some of my old high school friends to let me try stick (they're all enthusiasts),  but they're all too busy.
 
And I'll probably have to go with cost-effectiveness in the end, which contradicts fun.

 
I haven't heard any horror stories with the FR-S/BRZ models yet, except for a minor ECU problem which they fixed, loose bumpers which they fixed as well, and people crashing them because they don't know how to control a rear driven car.
 
Cost effective, the best cars that comes to mind... VW GTI, Civic SI (8th gen, preferred), Celica GTS, Matrix/Corolla XRS (05-0?, just not the current model XRS without the 2ZZ-GE engines), Subaru WRX, Subaru Legacy GT (both my model 

 and the newer Turbo models), Volvo R models, and that's about all. I HIGHLY recommend Subarus as they are oddly dirt cheap in the States... I have no idea what that's about...

 

[Ponefish]

I am currently driving a 2010 GTI and would highly recommend it. It gets good gas mileage and if you ever want more power you can do a stage 1 flash or ko4 turbo upgrade. If you want to know any information about them just let me know.
 
If you want to pay considerably less than 25k the mkV GTI's are down in price too now because of the mkVI's coming out. Either way if you are looking to purchase a VW let me know and I can do some searching around the forums and see if I spot anything near Boston.

 

[micrors4]

How much horsepower gain can you get out of the GTIs with some basic tuning, what about the TDIs?  I feel like they might be similiar to Saabs and what they can achieve as they both have small, turbo charged engines.  I also live in Boston and learned to drive a manual in Boston, just one day of driving and I was pretty confident in it, but it took a little longer to figure out how not to do a burn out every time I started on a hill.  Your leg really gets a workout in traffic, but a small, FWD car is a lot of fun in the city and easy to park which should definitely be considered.  I will keep my eyes open for any cars in the area that fit what you are looking for, I know of a small dealer about 45 minutes south of Boston that specializes in European cars and always has some VWs, Saabs, Volvos, BMWs, and the occasional mini.  My parents have bought two Saabs from there so I can vouch for the quality and the prices are more than fair, http://www.championms.com
The cars change often check it every once and a while.

 

[cheapfi]

The GTI will give you more hp from the factory, the TDI will give you better fuel economy.   Both have a lot of potential.  The TDI will be a low rpm torque monster with insane fuel economy while the GTI will have a higher rpm focus on horsepower and less fuel economy.   It is a bit of a preference.  Both would have a lot of power just massively different characters.
 
From the factory the GTI will be faster.  After tuning it is less defined.  Turbo diesels are very easy to get power out of.  The difference in the end is that the TDI will get 40 mpg while making that power while the GTI will get about 25 mpg.    As I said its a bit of a preference.
 
With the same ammount to each of work you may end up with power ratings like this..
 
It looks like a just a revo stage 1 remap on a stock Mark 6 Golf TDI will give you around 200hp and 290ft lb of torque.   The stock GTI already has 200hp without a remap. With a remap it looks like 240hp is in range.  The GTI may cost you the extra money just to buy the sport model.   Both of the cars can benefit from exhausts, intakes, and upgraded turbos.  With those you can get about 350hp from the GTI, the TDI with the same mods will only be pushing about 270hp but with about 430 ft lb of torque.  Both are easilly modified cars.  Either would be a great option.
 
Top gear built a 1980's vw rabbit with a TDI swap for $7,000.  0-60 in about 6 seconds, 84 mpg on the highway.

 

[cheapfi]

Quote:

How much horsepower gain can you get out of the GTIs with some basic tuning, what about the TDIs?  I feel like they might be similiar to Saabs and what they can achieve as they both have small, turbo charged engines.  I also live in Boston and learned to drive a manual in Boston, just one day of driving and I was pretty confident in it, but it took a little longer to figure out how not to do a burn out every time I started on a hill.  Your leg really gets a workout in traffic, but a small, FWD car is a lot of fun in the city and easy to park which should definitely be considered.  I will keep my eyes open for any cars in the area that fit what you are looking for, I know of a small dealer about 45 minutes south of Boston that specializes in European cars and always has some VWs, Saabs, Volvos, BMWs, and the occasional mini.  My parents have bought two Saabs from there so I can vouch for the quality and the prices are more than fair, http://www.championms.com
The cars change often check it every once and a while.

 
 
I learned to drive in the hilliest part of Southern Indiana.  My dad taught me to drive a manual in a 89 Geo Metro...  Those things have off-set shift patterns and about 50hp at the crank,  torque is non-existant.    There was a bit of an art about even going up hill, when I had to stop and restart up the hill you felt like you needed a third foot.    
 
I had to hold the clutch and brake with my left foot while shifting, then let off the clutch and brake at different paces while pressing the gas, gingerly enough not to flood it but hard enough to go forward and not roll into the person behind me.  It was a good learning experience, made me appreciate a car with torque.  You know its bad when you hop into a 30' box truck with eighteen gear transmission and think how easy it is in comparison.  Course my dad also had me driving through rush hour on the interstate in that metro while he napped.  We ended up sitting at a stop light for 20 minutes once because the metro wasn't heavy enough to trigger the left turn light.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

If you want to pay considerably less than 25k the mkV GTI's are down in price too now because of the mkVI's coming out. Either way if you are looking to purchase a VW let me know and I can do some searching around the forums and see if I spot anything near Boston.

 
Thanks for the offer, but I likely won't be able to afford something for awhile, so.

 

[micrors4]

Quote:

 
 
I learned to drive in the hilliest part of Southern Indiana.  My dad taught me to drive a manual in a 89 Geo Metro...  Those things have off-set shift patterns and about 50hp at the crank,  torque is non-existant.    There was a bit of an art about even going up hill, when I had to stop and restart up the hill you felt like you needed a third foot.    
 
I had to hold the clutch and brake with my left foot while shifting, then let off the clutch and brake at different paces while pressing the gas, gingerly enough not to flood it but hard enough to go forward and not roll into the person behind me.  It was a good learning experience, made me appreciate a car with torque.  You know its bad when you hop into a 30' box truck with eighteen gear transmission and think how easy it is in comparison.  Course my dad also had me driving through rush hour on the interstate in that metro while he napped.  We ended up sitting at a stop light for 20 minutes once because the metro wasn't heavy enough to trigger the left turn light.

My fried use to have one of these so I know exactly what you are talking about, the thing couldn't get out of it's own way.  There are some REALLY steep hills near where I live and you used to have to floor it and try to gain as much speed as possible then drop it into a lower gear and pray to god you make it up the hill, only once did we ever get stuck and had to push the car the rest of the way, thankfully the car ways nothing as you said.  I think this is the coolest metro ever: http://www.motorstown.com/images/geo-metro-01.jpg

 

[cheapfi]

Personally I think the coolest Metros, a term which I'm using to refer to all the suzuki cultus variants, were the factory varients sold under different badges.   The Pontiac Firefly featured a turbo 3 cyl with 73hp and a cool 115ft lb of torque.  The Suzuki swift GTI sported a DOHC 4 Cylinder with 100hp and 83 ft lb of torque.    Both took mods quite easily.
 
Before you mock them to much remember they only weighed 1700 lbs.... so the were quite the little pocket rocket.  If I came across one for ~$1000 in decent shape I would be sorely tempted.
 
Pontiac Firefly
 Suzuki Swift GTi

 

[planx]

Quote:

Personally I think the coolest Metros, a term which I'm using to refer to all the suzuki cultus variants, were the factory varients sold under different badges.   The Pontiac Firefly featured a turbo 3 cyl with 73hp and a cool 115ft lb of torque.  The Suzuki swift GTI sported a DOHC 4 Cylinder with 100hp and 83 ft lb of torque.    Both took mods quite easily.
 
Before you mock them to much remember they only weighed 1700 lbs.... so the were quite the little pocket rocket.  If I came across one for ~$1000 in decent shape I would be sorely tempted.
 
Pontiac Firefly
 Suzuki Swift GTi

 
Let me guess, 5 star crash ratings? 

 

[cheapfi]

Considering their suzuki design and the era they came from......  slightly more survivable than a smartfortwo or a golf cart, but not by much.  .5 star perhaps?

 

[planx]

Who needs safety? All you need is a racing suit and helmet