[Jepu]

I'm gonna agree with apples and oranges. But I'm gonna also agree that you can get high quality headphones for cheaper than a high quality speaker setup. They are still hard to compare though. So many things to take to account. Headphones are just for one. What if you want others to listen to music/movies too? Headphone price is kinda per listener.

 

[amigomatt]

I'm gonna agree with apples and oranges. But I'm gonna also agree that you can get high quality headphones for cheaper than a high quality speaker setup. They are still hard to compare though. So many things to take to account. Headphones are just for one. What if you want others to listen to music/movies too? Headphone price is kinda per listener.

Sure, a £150 pair of headphones will always trounce similarly priced loudspeakers, but a bit further up the scale, I'm not so sure. I mean, these HifiMan HE-400s of mine are regarded by many to be one of the best cans for sound quality you can get for the money. Now, these Yamaha monitors are too, they are slightly more than I paid for the headphones, but can resolve everything better in every way. That's my whole point, I used to believe that rule, but I don't any more.

 

[amigomatt]

sorry, double post

 

[redrich2000]

Quote:

Yes, I mostly run them out of an external USB soundcard (Focusrite Saffire 6) as part of my PC music making rig. Of course, they can be driven from any line source, either balanced XLR or unbalanced jack.

So could they be used out of a mini CD player/receiver?
 
On godspeed. I saw them in Sydney just a few weeks ago, it didn't blow me away as much as I hoped, mostly because I was expecting so much from them but partly there was a guy in front of me with a massive head who couldn't sit still. They did an amazing version of the second track from skinny fists with this graphic of what looked like a burning factory behind them.

 

[Limniscate]

Listen to some Magnepan 3.7 or the Vandersteen 3a Sigs or 5 series.  It's not even close.

 

[amigomatt]

Quote:

So could they be used out of a mini CD player/receiver?

Yes, any line level signal.  They are active and go VERY loud.  I've not had them past 60% yet, and that frightened me.

 

[SmOgER]

You could compare headphones to a single driver speakers, but that's pretty much it.. any cheap decent sound system with seperated drivers (sub, mid, highs) will eat a headphone for every breakfast. 

It's a 2 different things, of course, but cars usually don't go faster than planes...

 

[drtturnip]

Quote:

You could compare headphones to a single driver speakers, but that's pretty much it.. any cheap decent sound system with seperated drivers (sub, mid, highs) will eat a headphone for every breakfast. 

It's a 2 different things, of course, but cars usually don't go faster than planes...

Yes. Single driver speakers in a really crappy room causing  many phase cancellations and resonances.

 

[mangoegiraffe]

cars usually don't go faster than planes...

no, but driving a bugatti veyron is still be preferable to sitting economy class between two obese people with a baby crying constantly three rows down. high end speakers in the $5,000+ range, properly set up and well amplified in an acoustically treated room will trump any headphones.... but pound for pound i think in the under $2500 range it becomes more interesting. headphones have advantages too - soundstage, resonance...... 

 

[jasonb]

The hardest battle with speakers comes down to proper placement. Headphones you just power properly, have a good source, put them on and you are done. Speakers need to be setup properly in a room. It's very very easy to mess up a good speaker system. If your room isn't at least mostly symmetrical you'll never get proper imaging. If you are not sitting directly in the center between them you'll never get proper imaging either. Near-field is a little easier of course. Anyway, you could spend $50,000 or more on speakers and amps and DAC's and if you don't know how to set it up, or have a decent room to begin with, then a $200 headphone can sound better.   

 

[Redo]

Coming from a Luxman amp connected to Quad 22L2 speakers (after a long splash with headphones), no headphones can come close to the dynamic joy of speakers. A good speaker setup is a pure, revealing, and most important a natural way of listening to audio.
 
That being said, headphones are quite a bit different of a presentation for a LOT less money.

 

[catscratch]

A few years back, in the days of $240 HD600s and cheap Millett Hybrids, I would have definitely said that pound for pound, speakers are no match. Now, in the days of $5k DIY headphone projects and $6.5k badly designed amps I would argue that headphones have lost the value proposition already. Which is not to say that high-end speakers are a good value either, it's simply that the headphone market is maturing, and what that usually means for markets is mediocrity sold for higher prices. And thanks to places like this, which make very good deals and generally undervalued items instantly known to the public, vintage gear that performs at a genuinely high level doesn't stay inexpensive for long. I used to say "vintage Stax" as the default answer for anybody willing to do a bit of work to get seriously great sound for the buck, but considering the prices these days and the amount of gear flipping that goes on to artificially inflate those prices even further, I'd say don't bother.

I think right now, the solution is professional gear instead of audiophile gear - nearfield monitors and custom-molded IEMs. I don't have much experience with the former, but good customs, even if they're initially a tad pricey, will get you into the high end in a very reliable way, be as practical as it is possible to get and will sound good out of just about anything. They'll also let you avoid the sorry mess of sorting out the genuinely high-end components from the mediocre overpriced ones, which is nice.

Also, headphones vs. speakers is a practical choice far more than a value for dollar choice. To get speakers to sound good you need a dedicated listening room, and you need to treat it or rebuild it from the ground up. Even then you'll be dealing with room interactions for a long time. The speakers themselves are only part of the equation, and the amount of work you'll need to put into the system is far greater than it is with headphones. Not all of us have the space to do that, or the time - even if we have the money - so headphones are the practical alternative.

I do think electrostatic headphones do speed, detail, and general effortlessness better than any speaker system. But then a speaker system does soundstaging, dynamics, impact, and general presence better than any headphones. It can get pretty close to the resolution too, but only a handful of systems in the world are actually good enough to do that and the amount of work it takes to create a system like that is staggering.

 

[SmOgER]

Quote:

no, but driving a bugatti veyron is still be preferable to sitting economy class between two obese people with a baby crying constantly three rows down. high end speakers in the $5,000+ range, properly set up and well amplified in an acoustically treated room will trump any headphones.... but pound for pound i think in the under $2500 range it becomes more interesting. headphones have advantages too - soundstage, resonance...... 

Show me a reasonably priced headphone which sounds better than a casual mini hifi like Sony MHC-RG121, which itself cost some $260 several years ago. The price obviously included not only speakers: AMP, fm radio, CD changer, cassette player  etc... 
 
DT770? Not even remotely close. It's possible we could find a competitor in $400-600 range, but even this is highly unlikely. 

 

[mangoegiraffe]

im not familiar with the RG121, but ithe dt770s are definately not the best headphones under 260 (especially because they are closer to half that price - more like 150-160). and i cant even find that sony stereo on ebay, so i have no idea how difficult it is to come by. but even comparing my old genelec 8040s to my grado 325is through a decent amp/dac wasnt as clear cut a victory as you might expect. speakers vs headphones is a very different experience, they are both better for different things. 

 

[3X0]

Speakers are so dependent on room that I think the question isn't very cut-and-dry.
 
I prefer my JH13s (RRP $1099) to my Anthony Gallo Strada + SVS SB12-Plus (RRP $1999/$749) in my current apartment room, but I prefer the latter in a properly treated room.
 
A properly treated room costs a pretty penny and good acoustics aren't a given. I can use my JH13s anywhere and get immaculate sound.
 
Headphone enthusiast groups are probably younger than speaker enthusiast groups. Speaker enthusiasts have probably settled down and had the opportunity to develop a great listening room in their homes. I've had my JH13s and Strada/SB12 since I was in college and I'm still in my early 20s, so I won't be able to fully exploit the capabilities of the speakers for a while yet.