[Davesrose]

Ignore dualing banjos about whether headphones will ever compete with speakers

If the $200 is absolute....then AKG 501 seems like the best bet. Get them at zzounds, and the PA2V2 or little dot micro. Best choice for what your dad is looking for IMHO. Big soundstage, controlled bass, and easy on the wallet now (they're being discontinued....used to be almost 3 times as much as they are now).

Stax would be better quality, but it's over $200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John OK, I'm getting a little swamped here. Someone steer me in the right direction: In the $200 or less range should I be looking at a set of cans & an amp or spend the whole amount on just cans? Whats the best combo? Remember, this is mostly for laptop/mp3player use.

 

[Abouna]

OK, based on everything I've had time to read (thanks for all the help), these are my inclinations so far:

AKG 501
Senn 580

Plus the PA2V2, which seems like a great deal in a slick package (could be cosmetically nicer I suppose).

Any thoughts, esp. on the cans? Or am I missing some combo I should be considering?

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John OK, based on everything I've had time to read (thanks for all the help), these are my inclinations so far: AKG 501 Senn 580 Plus the PA2V2, which seems like a great deal in a slick package (could be cosmetically nicer I suppose). Any thoughts, esp. on the cans? Or am I missing some combo I should be considering?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Davesrose]

The 501s and PA2V2 would be a better combo. I'm a 580 fan....but to do them justice, you need a more expensive amp. On the PA2V2, they will sound too dark and bassy (and bass is the one thing you seem to be indicating we should be steering away from). The 501 is very bass light when unamped, and with the PA2V2 it should get a soundstage. On a good system, I prefer the 580 because its soundstage is more intimate and it has a warm tonality that seems to go well with digital recordings. But it seems like the 501 might be a better fit for this situation. Only thing I'm concerned about with it is if the soundstage would be too big.....that's what I don't like about the headphone myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John OK, based on everything I've had time to read (thanks for all the help), these are my inclinations so far: AKG 501 Senn 580 Plus the PA2V2, which seems like a great deal in a slick package (could be cosmetically nicer I suppose). Any thoughts, esp. on the cans? Or am I missing some combo I should be considering?

 

[Audiofiler]

To OP

MS-1, MS2i, K-501, or an RS-2 is my suggestions..read through the posts, you are pretty cool for getting your dad back into hifi..I have been trying the same thing myself the last decade with my dad

I think the MS-1 is a good suggestion for him, as its more neutralized presentation VS other Grado phones, and its uncanny seperation of the instruments and vocals, your dad will relate with, as far as stereo imaging goes..I think he will enjoy the clear crisp presentation that the Aless phones will provide..especially in into more music genres than just rock

 

[GlendaleViper]

Consider the Little Dot Micro+... from all accounts, and based on your dad's preferences, it could be the better option. I have not heard the LDM myself, but the PA2v2, while an excellent value and a good little amp, adds a lot of bass and is a little sloppy.

Do some searches in the amps forum to get a better idea of which amp will work best for you.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofiler MS-1, MS2i, K-501, or an RS-2 is my suggestions..read through the posts, you are pretty cool for getting your dad back into hifi..I have been trying the same thing myself the last decade with my dad I think the MS-1 is a good suggestion for him, as its more neutralized presentation VS other Grado phones, and its uncanny seperation of the instruments and vocals, your dad will relate with, as far as stereo imaging goes..I think he will enjoy the clear crisp presentation that the Aless phones will provide..especially in into more music genres than just rock

Sorry for the double post, but this came in between my post. I'll have to say, I've been trying the same with my dad for some time. He loves my headphones, but I just can't seem to pique his interest in Hi-Fi like he was back in the day.

Having heard the MS-1 on the weekend, I'll also put it in there as a recommendation for what your father seems to like. Definitely bass lean, but at its pricepoint, it is exceptionally detailed and drives well without an amp (though benefits from one if added into the chain).

 

[Abouna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose The 501s and PA2V2 would be a better combo. I'm a 580 fan....but to do them justice, you need a more expensive amp. On the PA2V2, they will sound too dark and bassy (and bass is the one thing you seem to be indicating we should be steering away from). The 501 is very bass light when unamped, and with the PA2V2 it should get a soundstage. On a good system, I prefer the 580 because its soundstage is more intimate and it has a warm tonality that seems to go well with digital recordings. But it seems like the 501 might be a better fit for this situation. Only thing I'm concerned about with it is if the soundstage would be too big.....that's what I don't like about the headphone myself.

First, am I going to be teetering on the edge of too little bass response with the 501, even with the PA2V2? He is not a bass junkie but will gripe if the bass is weak.

Could you elaborate (or someone) on the soundstage between these two? I don;t understand soundstage well enough to decipher here. He likes to sit right up front at the symphony if that hellps

 

[apostate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 With a can like the HD595 yes, I've found that there isn't a significant amount of change with amping and that they can be run out of almost anything and sound relatively the same however, by the same token with a can like the HD595, there's no way in the deepest recesses of the fiery underworld that it will rival or outperform a speaker rig costing "thousands of dollars". They are good cans, but they aren't even close to being that good. Headphones do offer you an amazing amount of performance but a $150 can like the HD595 will not outperform a multi-thousand dollar speaker rig. A can like an RS-1 or a DT880, CD3k, etc in a proper rig will imho definitely be able to keep up with a very good speaker rig in many aspects however, expecting that a $150 can (Fed by the afterthought headphone outputs that come standard with most receivers these days no less!) will give you the same amount of performance that a speaker rig costing several grand will is just plain unrealistic.

I've spent a couple of days demoing speakers at a couple of high-end audio dealers (and a few lower-end ones as well) with an iPod, 595 and TAH (FWIW my 120 Ohm 595s sounded a LOT better amped) just so I'd have an even basis of comparison since I couldn't listen to all the speakers I wanted to at one place. The cheapest speaker system was a little under $2k, the most expensive was > $50K. New retail price for my hp system at the time was <$1K.

Aside from the obvious (generalized) tradeoffs between headphones and speakers (tactile bass, soundstage size, etc.) the 595s were, IMO, better than most of the under $3K speakers (vendors included B&W, Vienna Acoustics, Martin Logan, Sonus Faber, Revel, Klipsch, Kef) I listened to. There were a couple of inexpensive systems that were comparable (Paradigm) or even better (Magnepan) but none of the systems/speakers I listened to were better and cheaper. There were a couple of speaker systems that just destroyed the 595s but on those systems just the speakers ranged from 3x+ - 20x+ the cost of the entire system I was carting around. That's based on my listening tastes though so YMMV.

IMO It really depends on what you want out of it and what musical traits you're most concerned with. If it's one of the traits speakers are almost always stronger at headphones will probably fall short even against inexpensive speakers. If those are less important to you, or if you are more focused on things that fall more into strengths of headphones (microdetail, etc.), then IMO many headphones provide a lot more value for the money than similarly priced, or somewhat more costly, speakers...

Ant

 

[Abouna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper ....I'll have to say, I've been trying the same with my dad for some time. He loves my headphones, but I just can't seem to pique his interest in Hi-Fi like he was back in the day.

This hasn't ben difficult for me as he never really fell out of hi-fi, just the equipment. In fact he has a pair of nice Phase Tech V-8 speakers that he uses both for front surrounds and straight music. Unfortunately they don't give him the sound he looks for, he is always comparing them to my vintage late 80's Boston Acoustics A60s which are still going strong and produce fantastic big sound for their size.

 

[auris]

I would forget the AKG k501s. I have a pair, I love them...but the headphone output of a typical receiver may not drive them well enough. For that reason, I'd recommend the Alessandro MS-1s at $99 shipped (I also own those and like them a lot -- just a different presentation and tonal balance than the K501s). They should be efficient enough to drive fairly easily and have a very good sound at the price point. I am also very sensitive to glare and "hot" stridency...and the MS-1s are non-fatiguing.

 

[Davesrose]

Well then maybe the 580 and little dot micro if a little bass is OK

I think he'd gravitate towards the 580 or 501 because they are very comfortable to wear....the MS1 is not nearly as comfortable.

Soundstage, for headphones, pretty much means giving the illusion of space. I like the 580s because they do put you up in front of a performance. The 501s, to my ears, have me going out in back.....why would I get a hi-fi recording if I wanted to sit all the way in back of an auditorium?? But I think soundstage in a headphone is very important for classical (probably why the 580 and 501 are considered gold standards for classical).

The MS1s don't have a soundstage, so I think they're primarily suited for rock (where you have a "in your head" experience). Since your dad likes comparing speakers, I think a circumaural headphone (that gives soundstage) is the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John First, am I going to be teetering on the edge of too little bass response with the 501, even with the PA2V2? He is not a bass junkie but will gripe if the bass is weak. Could you elaborate (or someone) on the soundstage between these two? I don;t understand soundstage well enough to decipher here. He likes to sit right up front at the symphony if that hellps

 

[Abouna]

I'm getting confused again............oy!

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John I'm getting confused again............oy!

Get HD580 and LDM+ amp and RUN FROM THIS PLACE! Its better for your mental health.

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

Quote:

Get HD580 and LDM+ amp and RUN FROM THIS PLACE!

x2