[Max Dread]

I just cannot see how that would work to be perfectly honest. And I think that kind of approach will much more likely bring in the "justification factor" into the equation........ you've read the reviews, saved ya money, waited eagerly for the postman to arrive, drooled over the new toy, etc. etc. So when you spend a week with your new amp you're likely to hear and appreciate a difference because you are expecting to. Plus, mood obviously plays a big factor. Tiredness for example. Music always sounds harsher and less enjoyable when I'm knackered. Likewise with excitement and happiness - makes you enjoy the music more......

So I think blind A/B ing is the best form of comparison, foloowed by a/b ing, followed finally by the methos mentioned above. And on top of all that, memory must play a huge factor in it. PLus you will be lsitening at different volumes, different material, etc etc!

 

[SemiAudiophile]

either #3 or it's your source (garbage in, garbage out). i don't have a creek or EMU, but i can easily tell a difference between all my amps.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

I just cannot see how that would work to be perfectly honest.

Neither can I. Not only would psychological bias be much more likely to go the other way (justify purchase; hear what we want to hear, what we've been told is superior, what would justify our purchase decisions), my ears don't confirm the (completely undocumented) long-term listening phenomenon so often used by audiophiles to explain away listening tests. When I switch from my Etys to my ATs to my Senns to my speaker systems, I hear the differences immediately; I hear the differences over the long haul. I hear distinct differences between different masters of the same recordings. Electronics? Once I've balanced volume I rarely hear any differences that are dramatic, and when I do, one of the examples is usually pretty obviously "wrong." Don't get me wrong, this isn't an argument that all electronics sound the same. This is an argument about how much different they sound, how significant it is(n't) and how absurdly the small differences have been exaggerated.

PP

PS: There's nothing wrong with my source.

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Dread /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I think blind A/B ing is the best form of comparison, foloowed by a/b ing, followed finally by the methos mentioned above. And on top of all that, memory must play a huge factor in it. PLus you will be lsitening at different volumes, different material, etc etc!

Very few people on this board do blind tests and even the few that do usually stop at lossy vs lossless compression and cables. Blind volume matched testing is rarely done on headphone amps, dacs, etc.

I've noticed that people who support blind testing (even if they haven't done any major testing themselves) don't hear the differences talked about on this board. People who don't support blind testing hear all sorts of differences.

Figure out what you want from that. Both sides are biased and I think that influences what they hear.

Anyway, don't talk about DBT here. It's banned from all forums apart from the "Sound Science" forum.

 

[Bojamijams]

Its funny that people assume all ears are same... If you hear a chord, can you name it? And say whether its a 3, 5, or 6 note chord? I can't. Bet you can't either.

But there are people who can.

Same with amps/dacs/ic/connectors/etc.

Don't assume your ears are the best in the world.

 

[moonboy403]

There are things that I can certainly tell that's not placebo. For instance, the amount of sibilance. When one amp's hurting my hears and I can't bear to listen for any longer while the other one's not silibant at all, I don't think blind testing's needed. Another example would be soundstage depth and width, I get some out of head experience with one amp and only in your head experience with another.

 

[scootermafia]

Yeah, the whole thing with your ears "drifting" with a new setup to where you don't think it sounds special anymore, yet you aren't totally sure how much better it is, is a bit scary and the main cause of upgraditis. I threw a lot of money at my DAC situation to try to get a really nice one, the Havana, and it cost $700 more than my last DAC (a Moodlab) - it sounds excellent but it's really hard to be sure how much better it really is, just that it's really good. I bet if I A/B'd them now that the Havana is broken in I'd notice some stuff, but I still am hungry for more. I did feel a little ripped off like you.

It is very true that recordings and headphones are the most important. Hence the order of headphone, source (digital), DAC, amp, then cables. I do think headphone cables make a huge difference compared to other cables in the system, but I'm biased

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...I do think headphone cables make a huge difference compared to other cables in the system, but I'm biased

Better be careful now or else the moderators aren't gonna be too happy about it.

 

[Max Dread]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyway, don't talk about DBT here. It's banned from all forums apart from the "Sound Science" forum.

DBT = Double Blind Test???? If so, are you joking or is it really banned? And if the latter, what the hell for?

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Dread /img/forum/go_quote.gif DBT = Double Blind Test???? If so, are you joking or is it really banned? And if the latter, what the hell for?

He's not joking as DBT tends to finds its way into every thread and the thread gets derailed.

 

[Max Dread]

But it's ultra relevant to this thread so what's the problem? Fair enough if it has nothing to do with the thread's subject, but here......

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Dread /img/forum/go_quote.gif But it's ultra relevant to this thread so what's the problem? Fair enough if it has nothing to do with the thread's subject, but here......

Well, rules are rules, so if DBT are to be discussed at any length, the thread should be moved to the sound science subforum.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are things that I can certainly tell that's not placebo. For instance, the amount of sibilance.

Whenever I've heard excessive sibilance (beyond what I thought was occurring naturally) it was almost always in the recording, and moved with that recording to other systems (a great example is "All That Innocence" from Patty Larkin's Red = Luck CD) is. Some transducers, with boosted highs or bad passive crossovers, seem to exaggerate the effect, but if you're hearing excess sibilance from an amp, something is just plain wrong and we shouldn't have to argue over whether or not it is placebo. It should be clearly measurable as distortion.

Phelonious

GrumpyOldArts.com

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whenever I've heard excessive sibilance (beyond what I thought was occurring naturally) it was almost always in the recording, and moved with that recording to other systems (a great example is "All That Innocence" from Patty Larkin's Red = Luck CD) is. Some transducers, with boosted highs or bad passive crossovers, seem to exaggerate the effect, but if you're hearing excess sibilance from an amp, something is just plain wrong and we shouldn't have to argue over whether or not it is placebo. It should be clearly measurable as distortion. Phelonious GrumpyOldArts.com

What's the explaination for width/depth and in your head/out of your head experience of soundstage?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bojamijams /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't assume your ears are the best in the world.

I don't. But I assume, reasonably, I think, that if I can hear subtle differences in mastering and differences between speakers/headphones of very similar design and voicing, that when someone comes along and screams...

"OMG! The Boondoggle Elitist TweakTone amp blows away every amp I've ever heard! It's a night and day difference! The soundstage is HUGE! The music is more musical! The PRaT is Phat! Everything before was flat and lifeless by comparison!"

...that I should probably be able to hear that pretty clearly. Without much guesswork. Without waiting a couple of weeks for it to sink in. Have I exaggerated? Not really. I've seen this kind of nonsense attributed to digital cables on audiophile forums. And by the way, a ban on the discussion of listening tests on an audiophile forum is just about the stupidest thing i think I've ever heard.

Phelonious Ponk

GrumpyOldArts.com