[Voodoochile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daycart1 This has always been true of Corvettes as well (unless things have changed recently--very doubtful as automatics keep getting better).

I don't recall if it was '81 or '82, but one of those years the Corvette was ONLY available with an automatic. That's just goofy. And a V8 that only made 200hp. Nice that they have that car pretty well straightened out now.

Regarding the paddle shifting (and other variants), I would definitely love to have a Ferrari with the paddle-shifted manual transmission. And a Porsche with Tiptronic would be cool. But it kills me how so many cars today that have automatics also have the "manual gate"

, and the folks who drive them sometimes claim "my car has a manual automatic" or "my car has the same type of trasmission as Porsche and Ferrari". Salesmen are so full of crap. There is no similarity between a paddle-actuated manual transmission and an automatic transmission with pushbuttons or paddles. Torque converter? Huh? Wha?

All that said, if I had to sit in stop and go traffic every day, I would easily give up a manual for an automatic. But I think I'd move somewhere else instead.

 

[shiggins]

My wife can drive a stick:

Only joking - I don't have a wife.

Although I answered yes, I can drive a manual, I think I would have a real difficulty in one of these countries where you drive on the wrong side of the road and the gear stick is on the right. I'm getting all confused just thinking about it - Bracke, clutch, change gear, oops no that's the window winder.

Edit: I do a 30 mile commute each day; 1 hour each way of fun nose-to-arse traffic but don't even notice that I have to change gears myself. Though that's most likely because I have never driven an auto - Not sure I even could.

 

[Alexhifi]

Ah, the manual vs automatic debate...it's been a while. This argument gets blurred these days based on a number of things :

1. Autos are becoming as fuel efficient as the manuals. Used to be a big advantage to the manual because of the rear axle ratio and number of gears. You now see *7* speed automatics available. Also, the CVT has come out...this gives excellent fuel efficient in the city as you can't do it better with a manual.

2. Control/speed - now you can control an automatic similar to a manual. Paddle shifters are in supercars. Autos also have the advantage when taking off as they can store massive amounts of energy in the torque converter.

3. Autos have come of age in terms of reliability. GM's 4 speed auto is super tough and usually lasts as long as the car.

Me? I drive a manual.

I'm a stickler for power loss and fuel consumption (CVTs aren't in sports cars), so I want the most efficient means of getting power to the ground....nothing does that like the direct coupling of the pressure plate to the flywheel.

-Alex

 

[KYTGuy]

You forgot the AOD: Automatic overdrive, where t he engine IS connected directly to the drivetrain via a clutch...bypasses the torque converter.

 

[Alexhifi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYTGuy You forgot the AOD: Automatic overdrive, where t he engine IS connected directly to the drivetrain via a clutch...bypasses the torque converter.

This locks the converter and does save slippage, but is still not as efficient. Torque converters are HEAVY even without fluid.

-Alex

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexhifi Ah, the manual vs automatic debate...it's been a while. This argument gets blurred these days based on a number of things : . . . . . 3. Autos have come of age in terms of reliability. GM's 4 speed auto is super tough and usually lasts as long as the car. . . -Alex

You forgot the most important point of all.

Manuals with clutch are just MORE FUN.

Pressing the clutch pedal, rowing through the gears, doing rev matching, all that stuff just makes it more interesting to drive. People who dislike manuals can talk about all the technical advances in automatics or even automanuals, but it all matters not when they are never as fun to drive.

 

[Stephonovich]

To sidetrack a bit, what do you think about the claim that an auto will turn faster times in the 1/4 Mile than a manual? I've a friend who says autos can be precisely tuned and will always give the exact same results, hence why Alky Burners (Funny Cars and the like - I'm aware that Top Fuelers just run a direct drive to the rear end) use autos.

I can see his point about the same result every time, but wouldn't you gain a small amount of power with a manual transmission? Granted, with a 3,000 HP machine, the gain probably won't be even noticed, but this is all hypothetical.

 

[Alexhifi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver You forgot the most important point of all. Manuals with clutch are just MORE FUN. Pressing the clutch pedal, rowing through the gears, doing rev matching, all that stuff just makes it more interesting to drive. People who dislike manuals can talk about all the technical advances in automatics or even automanuals, but it all matters not when they are never as fun to drive.

Yeah, I guess I was trying to give more to the auto side as it has advanced. But in the end (as I mentioned in my original post), I prefer a manual

-Alex

 

[Alexhifi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich To sidetrack a bit, what do you think about the claim that an auto will turn faster times in the 1/4 Mile than a manual? I've a friend who says autos can be precisely tuned and will always give the exact same results, hence why Alky Burners (Funny Cars and the like - I'm aware that Top Fuelers just run a direct drive to the rear end) use autos. I can see his point about the same result every time, but wouldn't you gain a small amount of power with a manual transmission? Granted, with a 3,000 HP machine, the gain probably won't be even noticed, but this is all hypothetical.

I think only the hardcore really stick with a manual when they start to get really fast (less then 11 second quarters). You need a meaty ass clutch to hold it and you can still break parts.

The rail cars don't even use what can be called an automatic...heh :

"So they do not use an autobox (as we know it) or manual. The system is simple in theory but not so simple in reality. The clutch packs are forced together as the car travels up the stip via air solenoids on a timer."

I'm actually not sure what pro-mod (IHRA) uses. I'd be curious to know though.

-Alex

 

[Stephonovich]

Pro-mod? Haven't heard of that. Is it the same thing as Pro Stock? Those use a kind-of-sort-of manual transmission, wherein a clutch is used to launch them, and then shifted freely. I'm not sure if the transmission is designed that way, or if it's just careful rev matching (somehow I doubt that, drag racing being what it is).

 

[Alexhifi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich Pro-mod? Haven't heard of that. Is it the same thing as Pro Stock? Those use a kind-of-sort-of manual transmission, wherein a clutch is used to launch them, and then shifted freely. I'm not sure if the transmission is designed that way, or if it's just careful rev matching (somehow I doubt that, drag racing being what it is).

Pro-Mod is an IHRA thing (not NHRA). They have an engine size limit and can use nitrous or a supercharger. It's quite an interesting class because of the rivalry.

But there is nothing like the feeling of two top fuel dragsters running side by side. I think it kills brains cells.

I believe pro-stock (NHRA), they use some sort of manual...as you mentioned. Here is junk from nhra.com :

"Drivetrain

Pro Stock clutches utilize multiple discs and must be serviced after every run to maintain critical tolerances that can mean the difference between a good run or severe tire shake. Since 1973, the most popular transmission has been the Lenco planetary design, first used as a four-speed and now as a five-speed. Liberty models also are used. Both designs use the clutch only for launching the car, not shifting gears. "

-Alex

 

[daycart1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexhifi I'm actually not sure what pro-mod (IHRA) uses. I'd be curious to know though. -Alex

I heard on TV about a year ago that these have shifting, but that the drivers "speed shift" them--they never move the accelerator from the floor while shifting.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daycart1 I heard on TV about a year ago that these have shifting, but that the drivers "speed shift" them--they never move the accelerator from the floor while shifting.

if its a planatary gear arrangement (as most automatic transmissions are), it is quite possible (and easy by high power drag car standards...) to make a manual shifter, and connect the trans with a clutch.

this fufulls the requirements for manual shifting, and allows for "wot shifts."

there are actually ways to make a "normal" manual trans shifteable at WOT. most people call it a "three-step" rev limiter. first step is the launch limiter, not moving, foot on gas, foot on clutch. second step is the key, moving, wot, clutch down. this allows the rpms to drop as necessary when shifting, while keeping the throttle wideeee open. and third step is maximum rpm.... weall know about that one, sneaks up on you in second gear dosnt it....

keeping the throttle planted durring shifting is an interesting experiance. its supposed to improve consitency from "run to run" greatly over a "throttle & clutch shift" and its also supposed to sound cool. from my old car which had some funky fuel cuts, they sound very cooool.

 

[Stephonovich]

Methinks WOT shifting in most street cars would be detrimental to the driveline. Dropping the rear end out is not something you want to experience.

 

[nysulli]

never owned anything but a manual, and probably won't switch for a number of years, its just more fun

as for WOT shifts, there are certain aftermarket ecu's you can get that have a feature built in that allows for "safe" WOT shifts, they typically drop rpm down a given ratio when you hit the clutch or bring it out of gear along with blowing off some boost if need be allowing you to safely upshift at WOT without much risk of leaving the majority of your gear teeth on your trannies drain plug

but sadly, yes, an auto can outshift a human, at least shift quicker, which is all fine and dandy for a straight line, but for twisties, nothing beats a driver who knows what he's doing with a stick and without all the drive by wire crap cutting off the throttle while hes on the brakes