[Blue Boat]

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you can't see time. time only exist cause ''we'' made it exist. we made it up. time itself is and always will be an illusion. it's only a measurement cause we made it that way. in reality time does not exist. we also made up height and weight as well. same goes for everything else we see and touch. we made it real and made it happen. not saying everything is an illusion. just time is but we made a measurement of time.

 
Nope.avi
 
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Also, don't bring Godwin's Law into this. That's not only a ridiculous comparison, it's a vicious insult to the people who lived (and died) with that horror. 

Godwin's Law is that as the thread progresses, the tendency for someone to make up an analogy with reference to Nazis goes up. 
 

 

[swbf2cheater]

A lot of it has to do with the Earpads breaking in over the course of a few hours and warming up to your ears, becoming softer and more pliable thus allowing the driver to move slightly more forward. This definitely changes the sound and accounts for the majority of most peoples significant burn in experiences.  That "night and day" effect. 
 
There is also definitely some degree of electrical efficiency gain over the course of time.  Wires and transducers that are brand new will show very very small changes in voltage in their first few hours of actual usage.  
 
Then there is the driver itself, if you know anything about speakers as seen at concerts, or the old guitar amps, you will know that there is an audible change in sonic qualities over the course of its lifetime.  The driver housing does move around, back and forth a bit when audio is transmitted outward, you see that all the time in speakers.  If there are any moving parts, they will be stiff in the first hours of its life and eventually learn to move more efficiently, just like a baseball glove being stiff when you first buy it and then becoming pliable later. 
 
Soundstage and airiness are really the most prevalent qualities that people report changing.  No machine in existence can test this, bass quality and textures all throughout the sonic spectrum are often reported.  The changes are all very small but as another user here said on the last page, they add up and will create an audibly different experience from stock.  So I laugh uncontrollably when someone claims burn in does not exist after they test frequency response and see no change.  Its like....derpppp
 
fhew
 
-mike

 

[kingpage]

Quote:

you can't see time. time only exist cause ''we'' made it exist. we made it up. time itself is and always will be an illusion. it's only a measurement cause we made it that way. in reality time does not exist. we also made up height and weight as well. same goes for everything else we see and touch. we made it real and made it happen. not saying everything is an illusion. just time is but we made a measurement of time.

Then, in your own word, all measurements are an illusion. However, something doesn't need to be tangible or physical for it to exist, so many things are like that. I'm not just talking about feelings. Relationships are an illusion? Strength is an illusion? Material states are an illusion? Basically, are you saying all non-objects are a illusion? Illusions are things that are fake but appear real, like in magic tricks. May I argue that your notion that measurements are illusions is also illusion?
 
It is not true that we make things we see or touch real and make them happen. A lot of things will continue to exist without your existence or acknowledgement. Ideas are not depended on our perceptions; history will remain the same (no time travel yet) regardless of how you sense it. Just because you make up something, it is not the same as an illusion. Sure in some cases, we could make things up and call them illusions (e.g. hallucinations). In general, the property of illusion is not solely defined by whether not it is human-made. Wouldn't it be the case for you, that even objects are illusions just because we name them in our languages? As in cats are only an feline animal "cause we made it that way. in reality cat don't not exist."
 

 

[kingpage]

Quote:

 
Nope.avi
 

Godwin's Law is that as the thread progresses, the tendency for someone to make up an analogy with reference to Nazis goes up. 
 

I did the right thing to bring it up, to reduce the probability of more people making reference to it (particularly using it in an arguement, you guys have mentioned it and not used it), wouldn't you say?
 
I'm calling it the "reverse Godwin's Law" (If someone is going to use this technique, please make reference to this post or me)
 
 

 
Quote:

 
Soundstage and airiness are really the most prevalent qualities that people report changing.  No machine in existence can test this, bass quality and textures all throughout the sonic spectrum are often reported.  The changes are all very small but as another user here said on the last page, they add up and will create an audibly different experience from stock.  So I laugh uncontrollably when someone claims burn in does not exist after they test frequency response and see no change.  Its like....derpppp
 

 
There is a problem with only testing FR. What about Square-wave? What about other sonic qualities? FR is a over simplification of sound quality, but a useful one nevertheless.

 

[MegaMushroom]

Call who you want skeptical, but Grado appears to believe in burn in.
 
-As any mechanical device, the headphones will improve in performance with use. We firmly recommend not allowing the headphones to play continuously for extended periods of time.  We strongly suggest letting the headphones break in naturally with normal use. Listen and Enjoy the journey
 
I got that bit from the warranty info from my Grado SR-60i box.  I can believe that the moving bits in a headphone might change over time, "loosen up."  Works in cars, so why not headphones?  
 
On a side note... What's the deal with cable burn in?  I can understand moving parts, but an inert piece of metal "burning in" sounds far fetched at best to me.  A wire is a wire... Ideally it shouldn't change chemically at all.  In a sense... shouldn't my watch run faster on account of electronic "burn in"?

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

This isn't at all fair, none of them will admit to their products changing over time.  You bought X set with a certain sound and a few hours or days later you can get a different sound.  Voids warranty issues and is technically false advertising, lots of legal reasons nobody is really willing to admit it.  Grado does include a nice letter saying enjoy the natural burn in though.

Are you sure about this?  Both the manufacturers and dealers of most of the gear I've demoed and acquired recommend a burn-in period, from various amps and DACs to tubes.

 

[swbf2cheater]

I've heard some say that your ears need to adjust to the sound over a period of time.  Some companies might, most won't admit it.  Audio Technica refused to admit their products need any burn in as do a few others while a few companies hint at needing it.  Give em' a call and see what they say these days.
 
 

 

[kingpage]

 
Quote:

On a side note... What's the deal with cable burn in?  I can understand moving parts, but an inert piece of metal "burning in" sounds far fetched at best to me.  A wire is a wire... Ideally it shouldn't change chemically at all.  In a sense... shouldn't my watch run faster on account of electronic "burn in"?

While not a firm believer in this, I'm guessing the properties of the wires/metal can change slightly due to the travelling electrons. It's hard to prove that, and I doubt many people want to do a thesis on that. Even if it's proven that they do change, you have to relate that to sonic changes.

 

[nikp]

I've always thought burn in is a scientific proven fact. In my experience, the only IEMs/HPs that I own that don't burn in are BA IEMs (except for the Shures).

 

[ViralRazor]

Just a question I read in some other forum which I'll paraphrase and post here.
 
Everyone says burn in makes their headphones better. If we believe burn in exists, it changes the sound signature. Why then, do people always say it makes their headphones better if it changes a highly subjective element. If you really liked the sound signature of a headphone before burn in what's to stop burn in from making it worse?

 

[swbf2cheater]

@Elysian
 
who recommended you burn in your gear, was it a rep in a store or a support/sales agent for said company?  Also, did they say it was intended for your benefit ( as in your ears ) or was it physically beneficial to the headphones?  As I said, Grado says to  let it burn in naturally over time.  I am not sure if that means its psychological, your ears need to adjust to the sound, or if the headphones will change over time.  I do know that Ulrasones S logic Tech needs time to sound right to your ears, your ears definitely need a bit of time with the headphones to adjust.  
 
 

 

[Danz03]

 
I suppose it doesn't matter whether burning in is a fact or not as long as it works for you. In my experience, some headphones/IEMs need it and some don't. My LCD-2 R.1, HD800, W4, UE18Pro, Turbine Pro Copper don't seem to change much since the day I got them, whilst the LCD-2 R.2, Shure SE530 and IE8 now sounded quite differently from when I first listened to them.
 
My most recent experience was with the LCD-2 R.2, as I was doing an A/B test comparing the difference between the sound signatures of the R.1 and R.2 with a twin headphone amp. Right out of the box, the R.2 sounded harsh and thin comparing to the R.1, and within 15 mins of playing music through it, the R.2 began to sound more like the R.1. Whether it's because of the ear-pads/cables/drivers or whether anyone else believes it doesn't really matter, what matters to me is that there is a big difference within the first 15 mins of using them.
 
So if I have the time and not in a rush to use a pair of new headphones or IEMs, I'd just routinely burn them in for 50 to a hundred hours, since there's really nothing to lose except a bit of electric power. I could do worse spending time arguing whether burning in exits or not with other people. 

 

[nikp]

Quote:

Just a question I read in some other forum which I'll paraphrase and post here.
 
Everyone says burn in makes their headphones better. If we believe burn in exists, it changes the sound signature. Why then, do people always say it makes their headphones better if it changes a highly subjective element. If you really liked the sound signature of a headphone before burn in what's to stop burn in from making it worse?

 
It doesn't change the sound signature. It just opened up the veils, refine the treble and improves clarity. 
 

 

[Currawong]

Have you guys ever thought that it might be that some materials used in some headphones alter with use, but some don't? What I mean to say is that the idea that the sound of headphones change over time is neither fact or false, but is something that needs research for individual models?

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Weather burn in is real or not really shouldn't matter if the customer is satisfied.