[nanahachi]

well, apparently i've somehow set my mind on getting a D70. sadly, they're still darn pricey (for me). the lowest i've found is $949 after rebate. i was told that the max budget was "under $1000" so i feel somewhat uncomfortable totally maxing it out like this. but, perhaps i'll just have to save up a while and help supplement what my family is giving me.

any thoughts on where to price shop online or locally (Los Angeles area)?

anyway, thanks everyone, esp those who have posted on the Nikon D70 here (under various threads) that helped me come to a decision.

 

[Edwood]

FWIW, Pentax *ist DS uses the same Sony CCD as the Nikon D70. Although Pentax's lense selection is more limited (brand new Primes, that is, there is a bonanza on eBay and used stores), Pentax makes a lot of absolutely fantastic lenses. I ended up liking the Pentax better because the viewfinder was better. Not to mention, I liked the smaller size of the *ist DS.

Try out playing with a Pentax *ist DS in a store. (Fry's has one, as does Costco, also some Ritz/WOlf camera places).

I'll be bringing my *ist DS to the upcoming SoCal meet, so you can play around with it, Joey and see if you like it.

The BIG BONUS is the *ist DS's price. Body only is $588 Shipped!
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/shop/p...sku=PEN-IST-DS
Yowsers, I bought mine from Butterfly Photo a few months ago for $649.

That will leave you with plenty of cash left over for lenses, tripod, and flash, etc.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanahachi any thoughts on where to price shop online or locally (Los Angeles area)?

For Lenses, Filters, and other Accessories
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

For Cameras and Flashes
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/

Avoid Broadwayphoto, and many of the "Brooklyn Camera Shops". Check their resellerratings.com you'll see how bad they are. Ironically, ButterflyPhoto is in Brooklyn, but I've had a good experience with them, as has many others.

-Ed

 

[majid]

If I were you, I would get the cheapest body I can and reserve the bulk of my budget for the lenses. The Nikon D50 or the Canon Rebel XT can fit your budget, but you won't be able to get a really nice lens with the $200 or so left over. Don't go overboard with a bulky body like a F4 - it is more camera than you need and the weight is a significant hindrance. You are more likely to carry your camera with you if it weighs 500g than 1.2kg. I switched from a Canon 10D to a Rebel XT for the weight savings alone.

If you still want film, reconsider SLRs. Rangefinder cameras like the Leica M are arguably superior in normal focal ranges used for street and night photography. A Voigtlander Bessa R3A with a Nokton 40mm or 50mm f/1.4 will easily fit within your budget.

For a SLR novice, a digital model will give you a better learning tool. Sure, it will depreciate much faster, but that has to be offset against the cost of film - you have to shoot a lot to develop your skills. If you can't stretch your budget a little to get one of the really nice 18-70 Nikon or Canon lenses, by all means get the kit lens, but you will soon regret not having true ultrasonic motors.

 

[nanahachi]

thanks, you two. ed, youre really not making this easier, tempting me to the dark side like that

i think ill have to hit some local stores this weekend and try those models out (D50, Rebel XT, *ist...)

I do hope to stick with CF over SD/etc b/c of the ability to use Microdrives and my current abundance of CF cards...

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanahachi thanks, you two. ed, youre really not making this easier, tempting me to the dark side like that i think ill have to hit some local stores this weekend and try those models out (D50, Rebel XT, *ist...) I do hope to stick with CF over SD/etc b/c of the ability to use Microdrives and my current abundance of CF cards...

SD cards are a little more resistant to data corruption, that some CF cards are prone to.

And to be even more evil, 1GB SD Cards are cheap. You can get a fast one for under $60 these days.

Keep in mind that SD cards "native speed" is much faster than CF cards. Be sure to do your research online, CF card speed's that are advertised are not 1:1 with SD cards.

Don't let a memory format hold back your decision. Memory is so d@mned cheap now. Besides which, you really don't want to use those battery sucking microdrives anyways (they are also one drop away from death, you can throw an SD card off of bridge and it could survive). If you are going to be shooting camera Raw, even with Pentax *ist DS's uncompressed RAW files, I can get about 308 pic on a single 1GB SD Card. I have two 1GB SD Cards, so that gives me about 616 shots! Mind you this is a large RAW file, not a jpeg.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

BTW, Joey.

I don't think anyone has asked this of you, but what kind of photos are you going to be taking mostly?

1. Fine Art, Landscape, or Product type photos?

2. Portrait and people type events?

3. Fast moving Sports / photojournalism?


If you are going to be doing more of #1, I'd say go for the Pentax, as it's better viewfinder, superior Prime lenses (difficult to find, though) and excellent metering will give you the biggest bang for the buck. The cheap price of the *ist DS gives you more money left over for spending more on a better lense.

If you are going to be doing mostly #3, I'd say go for Canon, as their USM Autofocus lenses are nearly unbeatable in speed (larger zoom, with primes, it's less of an advantage), along with Canon's autofocus system. With the crappy viewfinder in the Digital Rebel XT, you're going to need the autofocus.

If you are going to be doing mostly #2, this one is going to be a really personal choice. All have their pluses and minuses. This is where Nikon, Canon, and Pentax will be not so clear cut.

I have ruled out Nikon from my recommendations becuase of a few boneheaded moves by Nikon.

Specifically in their decision to encypt data in their RAW files making it difficult to process files. (I think they are/already have fixed this, but it's still something I keep in mind).

Also, I've seen quite a few pics from Nikon D70's where the color profile was easily lost, and with it, much of the color. More so than I've seen wih Canon's.

But in the end, you've got to pick the camera that is most comfortable for you to use. If the camera is too big an unwieldly to use, then you won't like it. If it's too small and cramped, you won't like it either.

Also, remember the viewfinder. If you can't see what you're shooting well, you'll be spending a lot of time reviewing your pics, zooming in to see if it was properly in focus.

-Ed

 

[nanahachi]

oh goodness.

you're killin me dude. and convincing me, at the same time

excellent points, really. that SD info makes the D50 more of a possibility; i don't know why exactly, but i tend to be loyal to Nikon, but i'm still very very open. the Rebel XT is isn't looking too shabby via the review at Steve's Digicams.

but until i hold these puppies in my hands, it's all speculation.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanahachi oh goodness. you're killin me dude. and convincing me, at the same time excellent points, really. that SD info makes the D50 more of a possibility; i don't know why exactly, but i tend to be loyal to Nikon, but i'm still very very open. the Rebel XT is isn't looking too shabby via the review at Steve's Digicams. but until i hold these puppies in my hands, it's all speculation.

I saw the D50 at Best Buy. Best bet to really play with them is to bring your own memory cards (buy a cheap SD card from Fry's, you can return it later if you want). Really the best place is Wolf/Ritz or a more dedicated camera store, as they will more likely have one with a set of batteries in it. Not to mention being able to try different lenses.

Take pics of the same thing. (example, bring the same friend to take portrait pics, andthen maybe a common item, like a hat, or maybe a phone or something)

That way you have a common reference to compare the pics from thr different cameras.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nanahachi oh goodness. you're killin me dude. and convincing me, at the same time excellent points, really. that SD info makes the D50 more of a possibility; i don't know why exactly, but i tend to be loyal to Nikon, but i'm still very very open. the Rebel XT is isn't looking too shabby via the review at Steve's Digicams. but until i hold these puppies in my hands, it's all speculation.

LOL, except, I'm talking you into possibly spending less money, instead of more.

If I were to give you more Head-fi tyoe advice, I'd say go with Canon, you should get the 20D, it's only about $400 more.

If you can stretch your budget to $5000, get the 1DS MK2.

Serisously, what kind of subjects are you going to be shooting? It's like recommending Headphone gear without knowing what kind of music you're going to be listening to.

-Ed

 

[nanahachi]

thanks hamsterman

subject wise, i see myself doing lots of macros (esp from my aquariums), portaits, landscapes, and lots of random shots trying to be artsy.

at some pt when i have cash i'm guessing ill need a nice macro lens for sure.

so far, the main camera contenders seem to be:
Nikon D70
Nikon D50
Canon Rebel XT
and maybe your Pentax *ist

 

[vibin247]

In terms of a decent SLR, I would go with the Nikon N80 with a 35 mm AF Nikkor lens. I like the 35mm lenses because they're particurlarly good for fast shooting, especially if you're on the street, and they produce fairly sharp images. The 50 mm is standard, but I prefer using wide angles and telephotos (and zooms on some occasions). But if I was shooting 35 mm in general, I would definitely go with a rangefinder because it's more compact, and the focusing is really accurate if you can get really used to focusing system. Here's a photo I took with the Nikon FM10 (a really cheap, yet good starter's camera), a 35-70 AF Zoom-Nikkor, and a roll of Fuji NPH 400 (ISO set to 200 instead of 400). The film was overdeveloped and I somewhat corrected the image on Photoshop CS 2.

 

[Snake]

If you are going to buy used I'll have to agree with the N80 / N90 recommendation - if the camera fits you and feels good in your hands. I came across a number of dealer used & eBay used listings for N80/N90's in the $300 to $400 price bracket including lens and that's a very good buy. You can add in a number of lenses and still have money left.

 

[stevesurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 I still say buy a used F3 and a stable of a couple lenses. Nikon's MF lenses were and are among the best ever made. They are solid and dependable. Unless you need AF, there is not much room to upgrade from the F3.

I have to go along with Paul's rec. if this is indeed your first film camera to learn photography with. The F3 can be had used with lens, be well within your budget and hold value for many years to come. I've kept a new F3T squirreled away in my closet, knowing that someday I may be setting it free...

The F3 has a very accurate (near 100%) and bright viewfinder, making it ideal for composition. When you get used to aperture being the priority, you'll be taking a very important step in photography (unlike the use of P-Program Mode). When you learn Depth of Field, hyperfocal distance and maximum usable aperture for a given lens with a manual camera like the F3, your next (automatic digital) camera will sing, because you have the basics down.

Lastly, the use of prime, fixed focal length lenses often forces you to move - either closer to your subject, at a different angle or further away, giving you a perspective that a zoom lens may not have required you to investigate.

I have spent many years in 35mm photography, and now with Digital SLRs, and I must say that my favorite Nikons were/are the F3, F5 and D2H (I have owned F, F2, F2AS, F3, F3T, F4, F5, F100, FM, Coolpix 5400 and D2H).

One last note: my nephew was given a manual Nikkormat by his mother last year, and because he forced himself to learn exposure and composition techniques with a MF camera, his images are truly amazing. I have not ever seen such a natural talent so early in his study of the art. I cannot help but believe that if he were to have an automatic camera he might not have given himself many creative opportunities.

Best of luck in you decision!

 

[nanahachi]

To resurrect an old thread, i just wanted to thank everyone who posted in this thread again.

i ended up buying a Nikon D70 on friday after holding and playing with a variety of SLRs. The Nikon fit my hand best and was the camera I've been lusting after from the start. But all of your thoughts and suggestions were most helpful in finally making the decision.

I bought the D70 outfit (body and Nikor 18-70 lens), which also came with a high speed Lexar 1gig CF card, tripod, case, and I bought a UV filter on the side.

Next up: a macro lens and a flash.

Thanks again. Pics to come ... eventually