Cambridge Audio 640A V2 Kills Little Dot
May 17, 2009 at 11:47 AM Post #18 of 40
Auditioned a few integrateds hp out with my 650. Marantz pm5003 with cd5003 - very ordinary from amp, hp out of cd was better, overall no improvement over my reference dacmagic and mfxcan3 - noticeably worse in everyway.
Denon CD and Denon 1500 series - overall better than marantz combo. from cd player was even better - not at all bad and very acceptable, but still no mach for my reference.
Cambridge 840 cd and pre-amp, serious dollars here - no real improvement over denon combo. None of these using 650 was better than dacmagic with xcan3 and psu. All sounded like my Yamaha receiver headout - uncontrolled and floppy bass with very lttle soundstage - still nice - if you have never heard a good dedicated headphone amp.

Introduce the Lehmann Rhinelander headamp, matched to cambridge 840 cd. WOW! I am blown away and very stressed that my 650 are not being used to their full potential and this is starting to cost a lot of money.

Anyone here thinks you can unlock the full performance of their beloved high end phones with an inetgrated is simply playing with their dicks. I really had high hopes that this was not the case.
 
May 18, 2009 at 2:07 AM Post #19 of 40
The fact that you've been able to hear the excellence of a good headphone circuit inside a relatively inexpensive integrated amp means you have not been completely deluded by audiophile pretensions: Congratulations.

The fact that you're expecting it to burn in means the pitcher of Kool-Aid is close enough to smell: Take care.

Phelonious Ponk

GrumpyOldArts.com
 
May 18, 2009 at 3:25 AM Post #20 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The fact that you've been able to hear the excellence of a good headphone circuit inside a relatively inexpensive integrated amp means you have not been completely deluded by audiophile pretensions: Congratulations.

The fact that you're expecting it to burn in means the pitcher of Kool-Aid is close enough to smell: Take care.

Phelonious Ponk

GrumpyOldArts.com


No, it just means the low impedance Grados work well with that amp...nothing more.

Peete.
 
May 18, 2009 at 4:52 AM Post #21 of 40
It might just not be impedance... Im not sure in this case because I am ordering an ld2 right now because I thought my AD900s were great on them. I thought the sound was very musical even compared with some more expensive solid state amps like the c2c
 
May 18, 2009 at 4:15 PM Post #23 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by QQQ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
OTL's usually have problems giving enough bass with low-impedamce cans. So your Cambridge Audio actually kills you with your unwillinges to study the basics.


Nasty, nasty, nasty. Is this what I should expect around here when someone says something that offends the belief systems of a veteran? How about "try some high-impedance cans before you give up on the Little Dot?" Or a simple explanation? Are you really so offended that someone might like the headphone circuit of a very well-designed integrated amp more than a rather average dedicated head amp? Is that a violation of the local faith?

This one is really nice, too:

Quote:

Anyone here thinks you can unlock the full performance of their beloved high end phones with an inetgrated is simply playing with their dicks.


Wow. I guess that's why Sennheiser and AKG and Beyer all have warnings on their web sites telling us that their best phones will sound really bad without dedicated amps, and why they have all moved in to take advantage of this great potential market by offering amps optimized for their cans. Oh, wait a minute, they don't do that? They let us buy their reference headphones, knowing that millions of us will simply plug them into the headphone sockets of our systems where they will sound bad? You're telling me that world's greatest headphone manufacturers optimize their products for the minuscule boutique headphone amplifier market instead of optimizing their performance for the 120 ohm output standard, which is, give or take a few ticks, what is coming out of most receivers and integrated amps (hint: that's why it's called a "standard")?

Not a very wise move on their part? Probably too busy playing with their ....

Peace,

Phelonious Ponk

GrumpyOldArts.com
 
May 18, 2009 at 5:04 PM Post #25 of 40
The ever lovely icon....
popcorn.gif
 
May 18, 2009 at 5:15 PM Post #26 of 40
Quote:

Originally Posted by spanimal /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Anyone here thinks you can unlock the full performance of their beloved high end phones with an inetgrated is simply playing with their dicks. I really had high hopes that this was not the case.


How many more integrated amps did you try besides the ones you mentioned. Or is this conclusion from those, hm, three or whatever that you tried?
 
May 18, 2009 at 6:09 PM Post #27 of 40
That's just it...with an integrated you are paying for it's preamp and amp functionality meant for a 2 channel traditional stereo setup with the head amp section an afterthought...you are better off buying a specific made headphone amp unless you really need the integrated first and foremost and the headphone function as a novelty secondary use...but this isn't the regular stereo forum...it's head fi...so............

The integrated amp as a headphone amp idea is a crap shoot for the most part. It's nice to find some new production integrated amps taking the headphone out seriously but most of the modern amps made don't make for good headphone amps, generally speaking.

The vintage stuff however did take this part seriously which is why you'll see posts here about those particular amps.


Peete.
 
May 19, 2009 at 12:31 AM Post #28 of 40
Hi Peete. Regarding the bulk of the vintage amps I've encountered, they used simple voltage divider circuits fed by the speaker amp to drive the cans jack(s). I'll take a small class-a discrete circuit over that any day. Sure, those speaker amps can dump a lot of current, but there is more of an impedance mismatch involved. Some listeners may enjoy the rolled off highs and flabby bass, however.

Video killed the radio star and the Cambridge killed the Little Dot in my system. Done.
 
May 19, 2009 at 2:37 AM Post #29 of 40
Quote:

The integrated amp as a headphone amp idea is a crap shoot for the most part. It's nice to find some new production integrated amps taking the headphone out seriously but most of the modern amps made don't make for good headphone amps, generally speaking.

The vintage stuff however did take this part seriously which is why you'll see posts here about those particular amps.


Wrong.

Go ask the manufacturers -- Most modern receivers and integrated amps make headphone sections exactly the same way they did in the 70s -- they step down the speaker amps through resistors. And the net effect is a raised output impedance that can result in coloration, in particularly low impedance phones, that sounds a lot like loss of bass control (or a mini monitor with a 60 hz hump). Most phones' response will not be altered audibly, because most phones are optimized for the output impedance of these standard amps, not the much less common dedicated headphone amp. In other words, the headphone section of most receivers and integrated amps are exactly as good, and taken exactly as seriously as the rest of the component. We could argue all day about whether or not Cambridge Audio is up to the standards of some of the more esoteric headphone rigs, but a Little Dot? This shouldn't be the slightest bit controversial.

This is a headphone forum, right? This is the basics.

Phelonious

GrumpyOldArts.com
 
May 19, 2009 at 2:50 AM Post #30 of 40
Most integrated amps/receivers I have tried drive my headphones decently - but I find high noise floor on most of these units unacceptable for serious listening...
 
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