[project86]

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I've found DAC reviews most anywhere to be very hard to glean anything from (that includes those on HF.)  It's actually easier to review a DAC as it relates to headphones as anyone plugging in an HD800 into an Invicta is hearing the same thing.  But a review about how a DAC affects one speaker system is really not something to rely on, especially if you use different transducers.  That's why demos are essential.
 
The differences between good solid state SD DACs are way smaller than reviewers make them out to be.

 
I agree - It's much easier to review headphones or speakers compared to DACs. This coming from a guy who has written way too many words in attempts to convey the sound of this DAC or that one. 

 

[athenaesword]

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I have a hard time putting any stock in their "comparison" though, as it seems like very little effort was made to be specific. Here's the entire section as it pertains to the Invicta, and I've bolded the single most relevant line:
 
"Compared to the Invicta, which I reviewed for Stereomojo, the Femto DAC has comparable build quality but more connectivity. It also has an edge in performance especially via USB. The advantage that the Invicta has over the Femto DAC is the SD Card reader capability, a digital-out option, an HDMI interface and headphone capability, which Invicta has implemented very well. On the flip side, the Femto DAC’s remote control is a classy, elegant, solid metal component with full functionality. In contrast the Invicta has a plastic remote with limited functionality. But, the Femto is close to double the price of the Invicta and that would compel me to give the Invicta a slight edge in terms of value-for-money."
 
That's about as vague as you can get - 9/10ths of that info could have been gleaned by simply reading the specs of each unit and looking at pictures. How big is this performance edge? Is it a "similar but better" situation? Or a "totally different and overall more enjoyable" type of thing? Slight improvement or completely different class?
 
I don't want to come across as defending the Invicta - I'm ready to accept the idea that someone liked something else more.... I just want to know the specifics of why they feel that way. 

 
 
I agree. at this point it looks like much of the review seems to favor the femto simply because it's priced at its current price point and therefore has to be "better". there seems to be no technological breakthrough here or revelation in terms of how certain elements are being implemented. even that USB line seems to have been thrown in just because. 
 
in contrast, I'm finding significantly more information on the invicta. not to digress, but 2 days of visiting another pro audio forum, gearslutz, has revealed a list of dacs that don't seem to have found their way here but seem to be very highly regarded there. they just don't seem to have been marketed as well. these include the lynx hilo and the forssell mdac-2. both are also in the 2-4k price range and as far as I can tell, are very loved by the folks on that forum.

 

[project86]

Isn't it interesting how some DACs become the darling of a certain forum, but remain totally obscure outside that realm? For a while it was Audio GD and HeadFi - you didn't really hear about them anywhere else.

 

[arnaud]

Probably because half of a product's sound and ranking against the competition is a result of collective mind reinforcement

 

[MorbidToaster]

Really looking forward to hearing what you think of it. Especially since the Cantana has been my only digital consideration at this price point so far. 
 
Loved the 24/192 unit. 
 
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Wait lines aren't long at all.  I have one coming in about a week. 

 

[DaveBSC]

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in contrast, I'm finding significantly more information on the invicta. not to digress, but 2 days of visiting another pro audio forum, gearslutz, has revealed a list of dacs that don't seem to have found their way here but seem to be very highly regarded there. they just don't seem to have been marketed as well. these include the lynx hilo and the forssell mdac-2. both are also in the 2-4k price range and as far as I can tell, are very loved by the folks on that forum.

 
That's where I discovered Burl's B2 Bomber DAC, which has me quite interested. What I like about the Burl (and the Forssell seems quite similar) is that they are no nonsense. You don't get a fancy enclosure or gold plated feet, but you don't have to pay for that either. The downside is some of these "studio" DACs can be quite analytical and sterile in nature - designed to spotlight recording flaws rather than be enjoyable to listen to. The Burl seems to not be in that group.

 

[project86]

Quote:

 
 
I agree. at this point it looks like much of the review seems to favor the femto simply because it's priced at its current price point and therefore has to be "better". there seems to be no technological breakthrough here or revelation in terms of how certain elements are being implemented. even that USB line seems to have been thrown in just because. 
 
in contrast, I'm finding significantly more information on the invicta. not to digress, but 2 days of visiting another pro audio forum, gearslutz, has revealed a list of dacs that don't seem to have found their way here but seem to be very highly regarded there. they just don't seem to have been marketed as well. these include the lynx hilo and the forssell mdac-2. both are also in the 2-4k price range and as far as I can tell, are very loved by the folks on that forum.

 
To add to what we have been discussing via PM - Gearslutz people tend to have certain criteria for the DACs they love. Have you noticed how they generally gravitate towards "studio" oriented units? Or units that look somewhat basic, where (as DaveBSC mentioned) you are spending more for the guts than the caswork? In contrast, some other forums have the opposite preferences - I've read a few places where basically I could determine which DAC they would like most simply by looking at the exterior.
 
I tend to think at HeadFi we have a somewhat good mix of preferences, though extra weight is given to value for dollar. On the downside we tend to demonize the more popular DAC brands (Benchmark, DacMagic, Audiolab) in favor of obscure brands (then again sometimes the obscure brands are simply better). 
 
 
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Probably because half of a product's sound and ranking against the competition is a result of collective mind reinforcement

 
This is very true. I always applaud when I hear of someone who totally dislikes a popular DAC, for whatever reason, as it takes some courage to go against the crowd like that. I might disagree with their opinion on the DAC but I'm glad they are thinking for themselves and trusting their own ears. 

 

[MorbidToaster]

I want to hear what people think of this DAC vs the PWD mkII...Or even the Cantana.

 

[project86]

Quote:

I want to hear what people think of this DAC vs the PWD mkII...Or even the Cantana.

 
Me too. I might be the only person you'll ever hear say this, but I'm not a huge fan of the PWD in either variant. To me they just don't sound like the world beating machines that some make them out to be. I'd not put them on the same level as the Cantata, Invicta, Anedio, Weiss, Antelope, or many others. I know a few people who think the same but apparently nobody is willing to post that because all you ever hear is praise. 
 
Or maybe I just can't take them seriously as engineers since they released those Noise Harvester units a few years back.... what a joke.

 

[MorbidToaster]

Sounds like I might get to hear one mid October. I'm really hoping it ends up happening because at that point my rig will be done amp and can wise. I'll be comparing to my 851C.
 
Quote:

 
Me too. I might be the only person you'll ever hear say this, but I'm not a huge fan of the PWD in either variant. To me they just don't sound like the world beating machines that some make them out to be. I'd not put them on the same level as the Cantata, Invicta, Anedio, Weiss, Antelope, or many others. I know a few people who think the same but apparently nobody is willing to post that because all you ever hear is praise. 
 
Or maybe I just can't take them seriously as engineers since they released those Noise Harvester units a few years back.... what a joke.

 

[jaycalgary]

How does the Nad M51 compare to many of the dac's mentioned?

 

[MorbidToaster]

Might wanna ask in the M51 thread.
 
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How does the Nad M51 compare to many of the dac's mentioned?

 

[jaycalgary]

Not really I read through this thread and saw the M51 mentioned along with a host of other dac's. If I post in the M51 thread I would just get the answer I would like to hear.

 

[MorbidToaster]

What makes you say that? The M51 thread is fairly non-fanboyish, actually. Most of them are reasonable when it comes to comparisons. 
 
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Not really I read through this thread and saw the M51 mentioned along with a host of other dac's. If I post in the M51 thread I would just get the answer I would like to hear.

 

[DaveBSC]

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Me too. I might be the only person you'll ever hear say this, but I'm not a huge fan of the PWD in either variant. To me they just don't sound like the world beating machines that some make them out to be. I'd not put them on the same level as the Cantata, Invicta, Anedio, Weiss, Antelope, or many others. I know a few people who think the same but apparently nobody is willing to post that because all you ever hear is praise. 
 
Or maybe I just can't take them seriously as engineers since they released those Noise Harvester units a few years back.... what a joke.

I've been wary of the PS PWD for a number of reasons. 1. I was in their reference room in Boulder a few years ago back when the all the gaincell stuff was new, and the sound was terrible. This isn't some hotel room at a show, this is their reference room. 2. The silly noise harvesters 3. My lousy Power Plant Premier, and 4. The fact that there's always plenty of them for sale at steep discounts. Paying MSRP for a PS audio product is just asking to get burned.