[Tomusic]

I thing that bothered my is...how can people buy 500$ cables to connect their PC to their DAC when it is all 100% placebo....
Its all digital signal... any expert will tell you the same...just like an HDMI cable...it neither works or it doesn't...that's a fact...
please note that I'm not teasing anyone...just asking a question...
 
PS
 
the info above is about computer signal that comes into the DAC...
I would like to know if it is the same with DAC to amp to headphones....because it Digital to Analog....
 
 
 
thank you!

 

[DaBomb77766]

http://www.locus-design.com/index.php/cynosure-usb-cable
 
$500?  That's nothing.
 
But really, there are already several rather active threads about this in the sound science section.  You should just check those out instead. I'm of the opinion, however, that it is 100% placebo effect.

 

[Caphead78]

Lol dabomb is right that you should check out some active threads already here, and the short answer is that they believe that there are timing inconsistencies in the digital stream that affect the final signal. Many people dont believe in cables at all, some just believe in analog cables, and some believe that digital and power cables have an effect as well. You are not going to find consensus here.
 
Quote:

I thing that bothered my is...how can people buy 500$ cables to connect their PC to their DAC when it is all 100% placebo....
Its all digital signal... any expert will tell you the same...just like an HDMI cable...it neither works or it doesn't...that's a fact...
please note that I'm not teasing anyone...just asking a question...
 
PS
 
the info above is about computer signal that comes into the DAC...
I would like to know if it is the same with DAC to amp to headphones....because it Digital to Analog....
 
 
 
thank you!

 

 

[Tomusic]

Thank you all!
that 3K USB is just ridiculous...100% digital signal...just as good as a 0.99$ USB
 
but here is my question...
are expansive analog cables that come out of a DAC make a difference?(because the signal is analog and not digital...)
or headphone cables such as upgrade cables for LCD-2 or HD800...
cause I've seen jude(the starter of Head-Fi forum ) using upgrade cables for DAC's ,amp's and headphones
 
sorry for the stupid question... I know I'm a noob...

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

Thank you all!
that 3K USB is just ridiculous...100% digital signal...just as good as a 0.99$ USB
 
but here is my question...
are expansive analog cables that come out of a DAC make a difference?(because the signal is analog and not digital...)
or headphone cables such as upgrade cables for LCD-2 or HD800...
cause I've seen jude(the starter of Head-Fi forum ) using upgrade cables for DAC's ,amp's and headphones
 
sorry for the stupid question... I know I'm a noob...

There is a lot of debate on this topic too.  But the fact still remains that there still isn't a single case in which someone has passed a blind test involving cables as the only variable...still, you should check out those other threads in the sound science board for more questions on this.

 

[Tomusic]

That's not necessary ...I know that I'm going to talk to people who "know" what they are buying and absolutely sure that it can't be wrong...
 
I just need to know...
is there a proven\physical\known difference between expansive ANALOG signal cables such as those that come out (output) of a DAC ,or upgradable headphone cables...NOT talking about USB,HDMI,OPTICAL...cables that is coming into the DAC (input)
 

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

That's not necessary ...I know that I'm going to talk to people who "know" what they are buying and absolutely sure that it can't be wrong...
 
I just need to know...
is there a proven\physical\known difference between expansive ANALOG signal cables such as those that come out (output) of a DAC ,or upgradable headphone cables...NOT talking about USB,HDMI,OPTICAL...cables that is coming into the DAC (input)
 

 
Not that I know of, no.  All of the information on cable maker's websites are either pseudoscience or random explanations without measurements or actual scientific evidence.  However, there is a ton of positive anecdotal evidence out there.  The very fact that a cable industry exists makes this very clear.  But as far as "proven" and "scientific" evidence goes (anecdotal evidence is not scientific), there is none to my knowledge.

 

[Tomusic]

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBomb77766 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 The very fact that a cable industry exists makes this very clear.  

 
That's not completely correct...
scams have always been around...legal or illegal...there are dozens of examples throughout history...the first that comes to mind and most relevant is of course...Bernie Madoff ...
everything he was doing was mathematically impossibly and many people knew something was wrong...but they made money of it so they didn't care...probably similar to what Monster or Audioquest are doing now...you just need to give a good amount of money to the wright people and everything you are doing is perfect

 

[Caphead78]

I think the comparison between Audioquest and Madoff is a little extreme.... I don't think cable makers pay anyone off, there are just a lot of people who believe in cables. Remember, Madoff ruined lives, Audioquest? Not so much.
Quote:

That's not completely correct...
scams have always been around...legal or illegal...there are dozens of examples throughout history...the first that comes to mind and most relevant is of course...Bernie Madoff ...
everything he was doing was mathematically impossibly and many people knew something was wrong...but they made money of it so they didn't care...probably similar to what Monster or Audioquest are doing now...you just need to give a good amount of money to the wright people and everything you are doing is perfect

 

 

[DaBomb77766]

I'm not defending the cable companies or anything, I'm just saying that the fact that the industry exists means that people see value in cables.  Personally, I see very little value in them though, and stand by my belief that it is simply placebo effect.  The placebo effect is far more powerful than most people seem to think it is.

 

[Tomusic]

Quote:

 The placebo effect is far more powerful than most people seem to think it is.

+1
and i found some information...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJOaci1NMLc
 

 

[Mkubota1]

I think the best analogy would be to compare unproven audio improvements with the unregulated OTC drug market.  Both go by the mantra "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone- wallet not included."  And they continue to do business along the assumption that if it's still on the market and people are still buying it, then there must be something to it.  The better place to find a more complete answer to questions like this is unfortunately in the Sound Science forum.  It's true that more people over there are 'objectivists', but that's partly because there are certain things you are not allowed to discuss anywhere else in this forum.  And it's understandable because debates like this are like religion- where you're not going to change anyone's mind and the thread takes an all too predictable course.  At least in the SS forum, you can bring up both subjective and objective observations.

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

I think the best analogy would be to compare unproven audio improvements with the unregulated OTC drug market.  Both go by the mantra "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone- wallet not included."  And they continue to do business along the assumption that if it's still on the market and people are still buying it, then there must be something to it.  The better place to find a more complete answer to questions like this is unfortunately in the Sound Science forum.  It's true that more people over there are 'objectivists', but that's partly because there are certain things you are not allowed to discuss anywhere else in this forum.  And it's understandable because debates like this are like religion- where you're not going to change anyone's mind and the thread takes an all too predictable course.  At least in the SS forum, you can bring up both subjective and objective observations.

Maybe a better analogy is with homeopathy, I'd say.  It does utterly nothing and yet there's a market for it...and since it does nothing, it's not hurting anybody anywhere but the wallet.  Of course health is hardly a good analogy overall...because even if it doesn't cause direct harm, it could be causing people to use homeopathic "remedies" instead of real medicine in a case where they actually need help.

 

[dilpal]

i do not agree with you that homeopathy does nothing. It has helped a lot in my weeping axima( discharge from navel)

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

i do not agree with you that homeopathy does nothing. It has helped a lot in my weeping axima( discharge from navel)

It is physically impossible for homeopathy to do anything.  At the dilution levels there are in normal "remedies," the chance that a single atom of the original substance remains is astronomically low.  And there is zero scientific evidence that water molecules have a "memory."  Homeopathy is a remanent of a bygone age, back when "western" medicine did more harm than good...homeopathy practice, on the other hand, actually promoted cleanliness, which is why it first caught on.  Instead of helping the patients, it simply made sure that they didn't die from some nasty infection they got from the hospital they were staying at.
 
I honestly can't believe how some people can actually believe in homeopathy...if it "cures" you then chances are that your condition just went away by itself via natural causes.  I don't believe in magic so I also don't believe in homeopathy.