[Prog Rock Man]

Nice one Tomusic for starting by asking a few questions and welcome to the forum.
 
Our side of the argument is that cable makers cannot establish a link between the way a cable is made and what it is made of with changes to sound quality. That various tests of cables have found slight differences in the signal, but that is unlikely to be audible and it certainly not causing differences in sound quality. Other tests confirm the lack of an audible difference in cables. So we are left with differences caused by the listener caused by placebo etc, which is backed up by the huge inconsistency in the descriptions of circumstances where people hear differences.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Homeopathy? Please. If water retains "impressions," then a glass of tapwater should have healing powers from everything it has come in contact with over, well, eons. Oh yeah, that'll include all the harmful stuff it has come in contact with, as well. Maybe that's why everyone who has had cancer has drank a glass of water. That's 100%, you can't argue with that, can you? Probably also why sleep causes AIDS. No joke. Everyone with AIDS has been asleep at one point.

Or maybe correlation does not equal causation.

That's why controls and (dare I mention it) blind studies are necessary.

You have to separate fact from fiction. Cables certainly don't. No one has ever measured a difference in the audio range. And no one has ever passed an unsighted listening test. Until one of those changes, cables have zero credibility.

 

[Brooko]

Quick question then - it's one that continues to puzzle me.  I'm waiting for the delivery of the pre-order Brainwavz B2.  During testing, the sample models were sent out with silver stranded cables.  For production, they used copper - to "tame the highs".  Can a cable actually do that?
 
Another reason I'm asking this is that you also see custom LODs in silver or copper.  Would the construction material of a LOD make a different tonal characteristic?
 
I guess the reason I'm puzzled on this one - is because these cables are supposedly altering the sound after the DAC.  I've always been skeptical - but I've never had the chance to actually try silver vs copper.  Thoughts?
 
Above are genuine questions - I'd really like to know. 

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

Quick question then - it's one that continues to puzzle me.  I'm waiting for the delivery of the pre-order Brainwavz B2.  During testing, the sample models were sent out with silver stranded cables.  For production, they used copper - to "tame the highs".  Can a cable actually do that?
 
Another reason I'm asking this is that you also see custom LODs in silver or copper.  Would the construction material of a LOD make a different tonal characteristic?
 
I guess the reason I'm puzzled on this one - is because these cables are supposedly altering the sound after the DAC.  I've always been skeptical - but I've never had the chance to actually try silver vs copper.  Thoughts?
 
Above are genuine questions - I'd really like to know. 

I honestly can't answer that question, since I don't think anyone has any access to the data Brainwavz used to come to that conclusion.  I'd like to see genuine measurements of the difference between a silver and copper headphone cable too, on professional measurement equipment... (Like at innerfidelity, for example)
 
Also, LODs are in fact an interconnect transferring the audio after it's been converted to analog by a DAC to the amp.  So supposedly using copper or silver there will be the same as using copper or silver in headphone cables.  But again, there is no real scientific data that supports the idea that a different LOD or headphone cable will change the sound in an audible way.
 
Honestly, I think it would be pretty neat if cables really did change the sound.  It'd just add another layer of complexity and fun to the mix when it comes to audio.  But if it doesn't, I'm perfectly fine with that, since it would also mean less money would need to be spent on components.  I'm still of the opinion it doesn't change the sound though, either way, since I have yet to see convincing (scientific, not anecdotal) evidence supporting it.

 

[Brooko]

Thanks.  I'd love to see someone compare the pre-production B2 (silver) with the production B2 (copper) and see if there was a real difference.  In the meantime, I guess I'll remain skeptical - until I can try it myself..

 

[DaBomb77766]

Quote:

Thanks.  I'd love to see someone compare the pre-production B2 (silver) with the production B2 (copper) and see if there was a real difference.  In the meantime, I guess I'll remain skeptical - until I can try it myself..

Still, there's no guarantee that the actual IEMs themselves are absolutely identical.  So it wouldn't be a particularly good test...
 
Also, the GR07 has a silver cable.  The earlier R04 had a copper cable.  Who knows, maybe they chose the silver cable for a reason.  Or maybe it's just because it looks cool.  I think that silver at least looks pretty cool.

 

[Mkubota1]

Quote:

Still, there's no guarantee that the actual IEMs themselves are absolutely identical.  So it wouldn't be a particularly good test...

The obvious and simple solution is to test the cables alone by themselves in a controlled environment.  But then of course there will be those that will say, "Well, you have to test it with all associated hardware because it's about synergy; and it's only something that can be picked up by ears- not by inanimate measuring devices."  And then we're back to square one.
 
Quote:

 
Who knows, maybe they chose the silver cable for a reason.  Or maybe it's just because it looks cool.
 

 
Ya think? 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Thanks.  I'd love to see someone compare the pre-production B2 (silver) with the production B2 (copper) and see if there was a real difference.  In the meantime, I guess I'll remain skeptical - until I can try it myself..

Your scepticism is healthy and when you get your cable try it yourself, you may hear a difference. If you do, the evidence shows that the difference is in you and not the cable. That is why I would rather make my own or buy a really cheap one and be really happy with it, so making it sound better as I am affected by my own hype!
 

 

[Monooboe]

Hmh I could hear huge difference between using headphone cable (with gold plugs) directly into the computer and having a cheap extension chord (with silver plugs) between the cable and computer... can't really be placebo? I mean if cables just transfer information? Yeah it's one thing with digitalcables that send binary code, but with analog cables there should be a difference?

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Homeopathy? Please. If water retains "impressions," then a glass of tapwater should have healing powers from everything it has come in contact with over, well, eons. Oh yeah, that'll include all the harmful stuff it has come in contact with, as well. Maybe that's why everyone who has had cancer has drank a glass of water. That's 100%, you can't argue with that, can you? Probably also why sleep causes AIDS. No joke. Everyone with AIDS has been asleep at one point.

Reminds me of the old George Carlin bit.
 
Scientists today announced that saliva causes cancer.
 
However only when swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time.
 

 
se
 
 
 
 

 

[Alghazanth]

I completely agree that expensive DIGITAL cables are a scam and placebo.
 
How about analog though? APS, Black Dragon, etc. Are those legit?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

I don't know about legit, my view is that they are not because they are not clear about how they work. Analogue cable makers come out with all sorts of suggestions as to how their cables work, but none  provide a link to audibility. That they make an audible difference, for some people, in some systems, some of the time, there is no doubt. But that in itself suggests the difference is in the listener and not the cable. For those who find such a cable works for them, they are legit.
 
What I really dislike is where someone buy such an analogue cable, cannot hear a difference and they find themslves advised to wait for burn in, to try another cable, listen harder, get better equipment or any advice apart from return it.

 

[Willakan]

Even more annoying than the above is when someone doesn't like a headphone and are informed by some moron to recable it 'cos it'll totally change the sound beyond all recognition.

 

[cyberspyder]

Depends on the situation. I do recables mostly because people don't like their stock cables or that they want it terminated a specific way. If I believed they made a difference I would be using cryo treated ultra pure silver cabling in everything and charging a fortune.

 

[Alghazanth]

I ask because with the Silver Dragon on the LCD-2 for instance, everyone reports more treble emphasis. I haven't seen anyone say it does nothing. And the few people who told me what the Black Dragon does to the T1 were pretty close to the same idea.