[Dynobot]

Sooooo Ummmmmm, I take it that many of the people here would probably not believe that certain stones like Quartz, Topaz etc. being placed inside or on your gear will not improve the sound either.
 
Just sayin....I mean I never done it myself but I "heard" of people who "claim" sonic improvements.
 
 

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

I used to hang a beautiful crystal from the rear view mirror in my car, until I narrowly avoided an accident from being blinded by its reflection. Never hung any on my amps or pramaps though... A guy has to draw the line somewhere 

 

[Uncle Erik]

I know people who claim to have been healed by crystals. Also used to hang around a hot spring that had all sorts of interesting claims about the waters. I didn't believe them, but it was a relaxing place to go and the other people were nice. No debates, they were just happy to talk about whatever it was they believed.

It's funny that people need to believe in magical experiences, whether it's healing water or cryo'ed silver cables. The real world is plenty interesting. Also that people ignore scientific results and real ways to improve things. We know a lot about audio and you can get fantastic results at good prices. Still, people want the mysticism. Maybe it's because science keeps turning on the lights more and more as each year passes.

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Hey UE, maybe we've already met!? 

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

I know people who claim to have been healed by crystals. Also used to hang around a hot spring that had all sorts of interesting claims about the waters. I didn't believe them, but it was a relaxing place to go and the other people were nice.
 

 
Did you happen to notice that everyone else there was:
 
a. male   

b. naked  

 
?
 

 
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Here's a way to scientifically test subjective bias: make a cable out of exotic and expensive materials (99.9999% silver, let's say) and make it up to the same specifications that an audiophile cablemaker would.  Now, gather a bunch of audiophiles, and explain to them what's in the cable, its market price and random marketing BS that a cable company would likely spout out.  Next, make three groups: the control group, who actually weren't briefed on the contents of the cable, and are required to take the test blind.  The second group would be given fake "impressions" on the cable - explaining things common to cable reviews, like "lowered noise floor," "opened up treble" and "toned back bass" or something.  They would perform a sighted test and write down their impressions afterwards, without talking to each other at all about it.  The third group basically does the same test without seeing any "impressions," and afterwards have to write down impressions of their own.
 
After it all, if the tests all match up (i.e. the second group disagrees with what the "impressions" say and their own impressions match up with the impressions of the first and third group) then it would show that in fact the cable may have made a real difference.  If the two non-control groups had similar impressions (due to knowing the materials the cable is made of, marketing and blah blah) and the control group differed significantly, then it would make a strong case that it is simply subjective bias in play.  If everything is random all over the place, it would basically just be a null result.
 
Not sure if I got everything right there though, I just crapped that test in a few minutes.

I am satisfied with the results already known, where every ABX test of a cable has been no difference, blind tests such as those regularly run by What Hifi have had mixed results and sighted testing as by thousands of audiophiles here and elesewhere raving about their new cable often find the most dramatic differences. Take that as a meta study and you have a clear result.
 
We already know that differences in cables are only discernable when we already know there are differences.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Stefan AudioArt and 'Our Approach' which follows the usual line of slagging off competitors for inferior design, pumped up claims about their own design and no evidence to back up what they claim
 
http://stefanaudioart.com/OUR%20APPROACH
 
Pure hype.

 

[spacemanhux]

 
"Why is it that in any other field you'd be laughed off the face of the planet for claiming that all available objective mathematical and empirical evidence (including not only measurements such as null difference testing, but also blind human testing, which is demanded for medicine and accepted in such hobbies as wine tasting) is unequivocally wrong, yet a few anecdotal sighted tests must be right - but in the sole field of consumer audio, it's the other way around?

 

That's the real missing link."

 

 

blackbeardben
 
you sir are spot on!!!!
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

 
"Why is it that in any other field you'd be laughed off the face of the planet for claiming that all available objective mathematical and empirical evidence (including not only measurements such as null difference testing, but also blind human testing, which is demanded for medicine and accepted in such hobbies as wine tasting) is unequivocally wrong, yet a few anecdotal sighted tests must be right - but in the sole field of consumer audio, it's the other way around?

 

That's the real missing link."

 

 

blackbeardben
 
you sir are spot on!!!!
 

So spot on I have quoted you in another forum where they love audiophile myths, hate attemps to present any evidence and lap up audiophile psuedoscience.

 

[svyr]

subscribed (yay fraudulent advertising bashing)

 

[Willakan]

Quote:

subscribed

(yay fraudulent advertising bashing)

 
And on the seventh day, God created Adblock to protect us from the cable adverts.
 
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

 
"Why is it that in any other field you'd be laughed off the face of the planet for claiming that all available objective mathematical and empirical evidence (including not only measurements such as null difference testing, but also blind human testing, which is demanded for medicine and accepted in such hobbies as wine tasting) is unequivocally wrong, yet a few anecdotal sighted tests must be right - but in the sole field of consumer audio, it's the other way around?

 

That's the real missing link."

 

 

blackbeardben
 
you sir are spot on!!!!
 

 


Quote:

So spot on I have quoted you in another forum where they love audiophile myths, hate attemps to present any evidence and lap up audiophile psuedoscience.

And the thread on the What Hifi forum which I started with that quote, titled 'Audiophile Pseudoscience' was duly removed and I have now been banned. Aparently it was seen as challenging the professional integrity of the What Hifi staff.
 

 

[Willakan]

Wow, the moderation over there is...interesting...looking at another thread where someone tried to discuss HDMI cables - the quote he was using to back up his argument was edited out for no apparent reason. Even recourse to the "House Rules" of the site didn't seem to explain why. This appears to be quite common in such threads.
 
Just the results of a few minutes looking around, will happily be corrected if I have given a totally misleading impression of those forums.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

The usual excuse is that they have linked to or even referenced another forum or quoted copyrighted material. That makes it easy to remove offending articles. There is no decent thread on any kind of hifi science there due to the heavy handed moderation. I have had my run ins with moderators here, but at least here is more tolerant of the alternative view and there are more technically knowledgeable people here.

 
I have been asked back onto the What Hifi forum, but the condition is that I stop posting on hifi and science, so I have refused and remain banned. I am sure it is commercially too risky to let people question the hype of the cable makers.

 

[DaBomb77766]

I wonder what ever happened to free speech.