[Steve Eddy]

The thread topic is titled "cables are a pacebo", and there are few better to provide information about the topic than "Mr. Eddy".  Impedance matching can come into play between an output of one device with an input of another, but any reasonably designed audio cable should have absolutely nothing to do with this factor.

He doesn't have a clue. His knowledge seems to come from audiophile marketing gibberish. As I said, he should take it elsewhere. It doesn't belong here.

se

 

[Shaffer]

The thread topic is titled "cables are a pacebo", and there are few better to provide information about the topic than "Mr. Eddy".  Impedance matching can come into play between an output of one device with an input of another, but any reasonably designed audio cable should have absolutely nothing to do with this factor.

Oh, don't remind me. If cables are a placebo, what is the control? Nocebo? Sound Science. Science Fiction is certainly more appropriate.

 

[xtroria]

Oh, don't remind me. If cables are a placebo, what is the control? Nocebo? Sound Science. Science Fiction is certainly more appropriate.

Every truth and fact that science had proven can be a science fiction to everyone who can't comprehend science itself

 

[Shaffer]

Every truth and fact that science had proven can be a science fiction to everyone who can't comprehend science itself

LOL! What?

Edit: Clearly, the implication is that you do understand science. May I ask what is the highest level mathematics and/or physics class you passed with an A-grade and your chosen discipline, along with your function within its bounds?

Please also explain how cables are a placebo? TIA

 

[dazzerfong]

   
Foolishness? As a hobby spending money on audio gear would be defined as a luxury. Foolish enjoyment
 
I have no concern how others spend their passtime or wallet expenditures nor shall others.
 
Science would be able to measure resistance, capacitance and inductance.  On a spectrum analyzer I'd imagine their would be a graph explaining frequency roll off between cables and between the matching impedances between the two components. 
 
However science cannot explain or cure tinnitus. Heck science hasn't found the cure for all cancers. Puts cable debates in the lower levels of what's important in life.  What makes a black/white assumption of what "science" dictates and what humans perceive between the air between the speakers and the human ear? A hobby is for enjoyment factor.
 
Hey Steve is "Science" to vocal headfi members directly related to new product hype? (Audio community is aware of this headfi phenomenon) Without a doubt the "scientific" formula must be based $$$$$$ of their gear for ultimate SQ. Cabling cannot have any merit?
 
Audio sensibility has a 30 day money back guarantee. I'm quite certain he does not get a lot of returns. 2 channel communities seem to be more open minded about cabling. As I ventured into the headphone world I noticed how science is black and white...very interesting. Again this is why I find the headphone realm so easy to please. No room acoustics to deal with (2 channel).... Science dictates to follow Headfi hype and your in musical bliss LOL!!!  
 
Again....being a scientist is not a requirement to enjoy the audio hobby people get so incredibly serious in this enjoyable inexpensive hobby.

But that so-called 'science' can do a lot of other crap for you too. Shame how you only focus on the negative, but ignore the rest of it.
 
Science is fairly black-and-white until someone comes up with legitimate evidence, then it gets pretty messy. Shame that pundits like you don't understand it. The fact that you've put so much effort into your reply speaks volumes about how 'incredibly serious' you are to this whole thing. One hell of a strawman argument, 'being a scientist is not a requirement to enjoy the audio hobby': no-one said anything of that sort here. 
 
Also, science can explain tinnitus, so please just shut up about science. Problem is nailing down what's causing it on a patient, because there are so many reasons it can cause it.

LOL! What?

Edit: Clearly, the implication is that you do understand science. May I ask what is the highest level mathematics and/or physics class you passed with an A-grade and your chosen discipline, along with your function within its bounds?

Please also explain how cables are a placebo? TIA

1. Completely irrelevant what highest level maths and/or physics class you passed, because it's an incredibly immature response. Dickish response made by someone who obviously is a troll.
 
2. If it doesn't actually do anything, it's placebo. Kinda like how I give you a white pill made of flour, and some poor bugger thinks it's a painkiller. Same thing.

 

[Shaffer]

1. Completely irrelevant what highest level maths and/or physics class you passed, because it's an incredibly immature response. Dickish response made by someone who obviously is a troll.

Scientific training isn't something one is born with nor does it come as a dream. As such, it is perfectly reasonable to ask about one's scientific background, when he is citing science. Clearly, the answer to my question is brutally obvious, on this front as well.

2. If it doesn't actually do anything, it's placebo. Kinda like how I give you a white pill made of flour, and some poor bugger thinks it's a painkiller. Same thing.

Cable doesn't do anything? Well, that's new. How about this? It connects the components in your system. It cannot be a placebo by definition, which only serve to illustrate the gross ignorance promoted on this board.

Edit: typo

 

[castleofargh]

could we talk about the subject and not about who has the biggest D?
 
from the analog stage in my DAP:

 
 
 
 
 
to this in my IEMs:

 
where are the thick braided wires, the golden plated silver, the so very important special insulator and shielding without which no good music can be heard? where are the cryogenic treatments? how many changes of metal will the signal encounter? how many changes of diameter? is one more wire with a special sauce going to improve over the standard cable that is already made with usually adequate specifications? of course not.
 
add to that all the situations where the devices are connected following impedance bridging to ensure that minute impedance changes will have very negligible effect, and there you go.
a special cable will be needed only for a special usage, like in a place where EMI are a massive problem, or when the cable has to be much longer than it usually is, and in those instances it's not so much a better cable than a cable with specs more suited to solve a specific problem.
 now for the average audio system where almost all commercially available audio cables are already made with standard specs suited for our use, it's an obvious waste of good money to try and "upgrade" cables for sound reasons. and in many cases with idiotic audiophile snake oil cables, it might actually decrease the signal fidelity a little.
 
it's not that cables are placebo that's a problem. it's that people couldn't care less about the mess inside the boxes. why? because to them, what they don't see doesn't exist. but as soon as it's a cable they see, man it has to be important for sound! no need to go further to see that there is nothing rational or scientific to that. it's just a wishful and narrow minded thinking.

 

[threephi]

 

2. If it doesn't actually do anything, it's placebo. Kinda like how I give you a white pill made of flour, and some poor bugger thinks it's a painkiller. Same thing.

Cable doesn't do anything? Well, that's new. How about this? It connects the components in your system. It cannot be a placebo by definition, which only serve to illustrate the gross ignorance promoted on this board.

Edit: typo

Of course cables do "something".  I agree with dazzerfong on the main points, but he gave a somewhat clumsy description of what a placebo is, so don't use that flawed definition as an excuse to tune out.  Having it actually achieve an effect (or to put it another way, "do anything") is in fact a required element of a placebo.  The critical point, however, is that this effectiveness is not rooted in the actual physical properties of the thing, but purely in the psychological expectation that it will be effective.

It is a natural human tendency to think something is better merely because it is newer, more expensive, or more complex, but none of those are true by necessity.  We automatically expect that such things will be better compared with something older, cheaper, or simpler, and this often becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.  In the context of high-end audio cables, this has been taken to extravagant extremes.
 
This is what we mean when we say cables are placebo--expensive cables with fancy alloys etc. don't sound better because of any actual physical property that makes them better conductors of audio signals, they sound better because people expect them to sound better.

 

[superjawes]

May I ask what is the highest level mathematics and/or physics class you passed with an A-grade and your chosen discipline, along with your function within its bounds?

This rubbish again? :rolleyes:

Please also explain how cables are a placebo? TIA

People replace cables and hear a difference, even though the measurements tell us that no human should be able to hear a difference.

There you go. Placebo effect.

 

[Shaffer]

This rubbish again? :rolleyes:
People replace cables and hear a difference, even though the measurements tell us that no human should be able to hear a difference.

There you go. Placebo effect.

"cables are placebo." End of story.

 

[lookingforIEMs]

could we talk about the subject and not about who has the biggest D?

from the analog stage in my DAP:







to this in my IEMs:



where are the thick braided wires, the golden plated silver, the so very important special insulator and shielding without which no good music can be heard? where are the cryogenic treatments? how many changes of metal will the signal encounter? how many changes of diameter? is one more wire with a special sauce going to improve over the standard cable that is already made with usually adequate specifications? of course not.

They usually don't come stock. For example, Mezzo Soprano has a service where they modify your AK DAP and replace the internal soldering.



IEM wise, take a look at HUM audio's Facebook page. Their ciem uses copper Litz for the internal wiring. This supposedly transforms the 2 driver from a mere mid range/budget ciem to a TOTL ciem. I've heard it and it's certainly very capable.

 

[axax]

Cables are placebo...

 
İt is funny.I have 3 different cable (one of them is much expensive than 1000$) for my iem.Differences are so clear.İf someone can't perceive the differences please stop listening the music.5 years old child could this...

 

[Toom]

Cables are placebo...:eek:

İt is funny.I have 3 different cable (one of them is much expensive than 1000$) for my iem.Differences are so clear.İf someone can't perceive the differences please stop listening the music.5 years old child could this...

You spent over $1000 on a cable for your IEMs?

Which IEMs do you have?

 

[lookingforIEMs]

You spent over $1000 on a cable for your IEMs?

Which IEMs do you have?

tralucent ref 1 too I believe.

 

[arnyk]

  Cables are placebo...

 
İt is funny.I have 3 different cable (one of them is much expensive than 1000$) for my iem.Differences are so clear.İf someone can't perceive the differences please stop listening the music.5 years old child could this...

 
Statements like the above are strongly indicative of the usual problems related to doing anti-scientific listening evaluations. If it the cause is not the placebo effect (choices based on non-audible cues), then it is the absence of level matching, the non-existent time synching of the music, or the slow switching.
 
The proof is to simply do listening tests that do not contain those errors, which is not always easy to do.