[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, but that's not really a cable, it's a "Light Analog Module (LAM) Photon Transducer Light Signal".

But of course!

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[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, over $3,000 to be lied to. How can the music "never be digitized" on a digital cable? It enters the cable as binary data, so right there, they are lying.

No, it's NOT a digital cable. It's all analogue. The analogue signal is simply converted to light and it's the light intensity that's modulated to transmit the signal. That's why they produce so much distortion.

When John Atkinson did the measurements in the Stereophile review of the cables, he wrote:

If this review were of a conventional product, I would dismiss it as being broken.

However Michael Fremer, who reviewed the cables, praised them as the best cables he's ever heard.

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[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, it's NOT a digital cable. It's all analogue. The analogue signal is simply converted to light and it's the light intensity that's modulated to transmit the signal. That's why they produce so much distortion.

The cable may be, but the signal entering it is not analog. It is coming from a digital RCA from the source. It will then be converted back to digital before entering the DAC. Why would anyone want to go D-A-D when you can leave it as digital right until the DAC? I agree with you about the distortion (the extra conversion surely adds to it), but they are still contradicting their own claims at every turn. That, to me, is lying.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure it can. Harmonic Technology figured out a way to do that with their CyberLight cables. se

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, but that's not really a cable, it's a "Light Analog Module (LAM) Photon Transducer Light Signal".

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Harmonic Technology | Products | Photon Cables | Photon Digital

More to the point you should see Stereophile's measurements on said quote cable unquote - it aint pretty !

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The cable may be, but the signal entering it is not analog. It is coming from a digital RCA from the source. It will then be converted back to digital before entering the DAC. Why would anyone want to go D-A-D when you can leave it as digital right until the DAC? I agree with you about the distortion (the extra conversion surely adds to it), but they are still contradicting their own claims at every turn. That, to me, is lying.

No, the cables I'm referring are NOT digital in ANY respect.

I'm referring to what were previously called their CyberLight cables, which are now called "Photon." Their Photon Amp interconnect and their Photon Link interconnect are both WHOLLY ANALOGUE cables.

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[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif More to the point you should see Stereophile's measurements on said quote cable unquote - it aint pretty !

Here's the review:

Harmonic Technology CyberLight Wave & P2A interconnects

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[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, the cables I'm referring are NOT digital in ANY respect. I'm referring to what were previously called their CyberLight cables, which are now called "Photon." Their Photon Amp interconnect and their Photon Link interconnect are both WHOLLY ANALOGUE cables.

I understand that, but the signal will still be converted back to digital once it reaches the other RCA jack before it hits the DAC as it cannot read analog information. Thus, the entire basis for the cable is pure silliness. Why convert to analog, when the source and the data before the DAC is digital. It's needless, and all of the claims I outlined other than the nature of the cable (digital vs. analog) still stand. Pure marketing garbage.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand that, but the signal will still be converted back to digital once it reaches the other RCA jack before it hits the DAC as it cannot read analog information.

NO IT WON'T!

IT'S NOT FOR A DAC!

IT'S AN [size=large]ANALOGUE[/size] CABLE!

THERE IS NO A TO D OR D TO A GOING ON! IT'S ENTIRELY [size=large]ANALOGUE[/size]!

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[Lead Ears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand that, but the signal will still be converted back to digital once it reaches the other RCA jack before it hits the DAC as it cannot read analog information. Thus, the entire basis for the cable is pure silliness. Why convert to analog, when the source and the data before the DAC is digital. It's needless, and all of the claims I outlined other than the nature of the cable (digital vs. analog) still stand. Pure marketing garbage.

I think they're implying that the electrical analogue signal is converted to an analogue light signal, presumably with different wavelengths and intensities, rather than bits of 1s and 0s. In this form, it travels the length of the cable, where at the other end it is transduced back into an electrical analogue signal. While there might not be any AD-DA conversion, it still sounds pretty silly to me.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif NO IT WON'T! IT'S NOT FOR A DAC! IT'S AN [size=large]ANALOGUE[/size] CABLE! THERE IS NO A TO D OR D TO A GOING ON! IT'S ENTIRELY [size=large]ANALOGUE[/size]! se

Where am I wrong?

"Harmonic Technology Photon Digital Data Link

The second generation of the CyberLight Digital Data Link cable that is optimized for Transport-to-DAC connections. The Photon Digital is a true 75 OHM RCA Photon Digital cable or 110 OHM AES-EBU Photon Digital (XLR) cable."

From: Harmonic Technology | Products | Photon Cables | Photon Digital

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, there's little point in asking if they are "snakeoil." A "skeptic" will tell you that any cable that costs more than $25 (or whatever) is "snakeoil" (i.e., in terms of whether it makes an audible difference).

Just interested, why do you draw a line in the sand at $25, not more or less?
I would think that terminations, RFI protection and durability would account for a lot, plus the purity of the wire. I don't need a garden hose, or triple mesh braiding, but I do need something that is not going to allow my other lanes of traffic cross into my HOV lane.

I still notice a large difference in the speed of copper vs. silver. That accounts for something which cannot be taken lightly.
And my Cardas Neutral Refs sound considerably better than my Time Warner Cable OEMS, when it comes to veil, extension, and durability. How can that be explained, except for taking purity into account. If you have electrons banging into impure metal alloys incorporated into the wire, it's going to make a difference.

 

[Lead Ears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where am I wrong? "Harmonic Technology Photon Digital Data Link The second generation of the CyberLight Digital Data Link cable that is optimized for Transport-to-DAC connections. The Photon Digital is a true 75 OHM RCA Photon Digital cable or 110 OHM AES-EBU Photon Digital (XLR) cable." From: Harmonic Technology | Products | Photon Cables | Photon Digital

you're looking at a different url, although their pitch seems to be the same. look here: Harmonic Technology | Products | Photon Cables | Photon Amp

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadtonowhere08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where am I wrong? "Harmonic Technology Photon Digital Data Link

You're wrong in that THAT'S NOT THE CABLE I'M TALKING ABOUT.

I'm talking about their ANALOGUE optical cables!

Previously the CyberLight, now the Photon Amp and Photon Link.

Photon Amp

Photon Link

These are both WHOLLY ANALOGUE CABLES.

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[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif you're looking at a different url, although their pitch seems to be the same. look here: Harmonic Technology | Products | Photon Cables | Photon Amp

I saw that as well. I did not object to that, because it is not claiming to be an analog cable for digital connections. It still has many of the same contradictions though.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're wrong in that THAT'S NOT THE CABLE I'M TALKING ABOUT. I'm talking about their ANALOGUE optical cables! Previously the CyberLight, now the Photon Amp and Photon Link. Photon Amp Photon Link These are both WHOLLY ANALOGUE CABLES. se

Again, I understand that. Perhaps you can relax and look at what I am saying? My first post regarding this links to the different (digital) cable. I can understand your point and make my own, no?