[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil_JV Yah, okay. Have you ever owned an import? If you did you would understand why. JV. EDIT: Forgot to mention. Wait until your sis decides to sell her car. Enjoy! Have you ever payed attention to the huge value drop after you drive a domestic off of the lot? Compare that to a Honda, Nissan, Toyota, etc. If not, you will notice when it is time to sell.

Do you watch Grand American Racing at all? The Chevy Cobalt and Dodge Neon literally run circles around cars like the Acura TSX,RSX,BMW 330,Mazda Rx-8 and BMW Z-4. In unrestricted form the Cobalt and Neon are so fast they actually lapped the field in a 40 minute race. If you don't know what that means,it means they passed every car in the race twice. Both cars are now straddled with exhaust,intake and boost restrictions that have allowed the other cars to compete.

The Chevy Cobalt is forced to race in this series with less boost than a car rolling off the showroom floor and with the same exhaust manifolds and intake. It also had 200 pounds of weight added to further slow it down. The restrictions on the Neon are far,far worse and they were so fast they often beat up on BMW M3s when the ST and GS classes raced on the same course in mileage based events. The fact is, other than in magazines, the only place cars like Civics and Acuras actually compete with cars like the Cobalts and Neons is in the minds of their owners. The always fun Domestic vs. Import nights at the local dragstrip (Route 66 raceway )were so lopsided in favor of the domestics like the Neons and Cobalts,the import guys just stopped showing up and the series had to be cancelled. I always get a kick when import fans talk about how their cars are "better". You gotta have a dream.

Please keep in mind I'm having a fun and can take a barb myself,so feel free to fire a return shot.

 

[zoboomofo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thgear I err on the side of fun to drive over fuel economy or a plush ride. I like the Mazda3 5 door with the 2.3L engine. They're more fun to drive. I'm not sure how it can be more plasticky. My wife's 2000 Protege ES and her previous 1998 ES were extremely plasticky inside. This new engine is much better, but even my wife's car had surprising torque down low and responsive handling.

When I was shopping for a car, I wanted a Protege because my old folks have one (a 94), and its a nimble and torquey car that I love. I test drove a base model 2001ish sedan, and I had so much fun. The car was just as light and spartan as the older version, and the transmission felt pretty smooth too. The 2004 was definitely more comfortable, but heavier and less direct to the road. The engine was too quiet, the steering too soft, and the interior more padded (and plastic). It didn't feel gritty enough. On the other hand I drove a couple of Protege 5s (2001, 2002) which felt so crude, that it was unpleasant to drive them. The shifter was like something out of a jeep - very spongy. I don't know why the 4dr & hb had such a different feel, but I felt that the newer version had such a distinct feel that I could generalize for the rest of the current "3" lineup. Maybe there are different packages that feel sportier in the new lineup so ymmv. I tend to prefer lighter cars even though my Civic is a compromise of comfort and space over fun.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller The Chevy Cobalt and Dodge Neon literally run circles around cars like the Acura TSX,RSX,BMW 330,Mazda Rx-8 and BMW Z-4.

I find it a little hard to believe that the Neon runs circles around the RX-8 and similar cars, but the Neon is certainly a good suggestion if you buy used. They're not bad cars and the resale value is so low that you can get it cheap enough to just throw out if you have any major problems.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY I find it a little hard to believe that the Neon runs circles around the RX-8 and similar cars, but the Neon is certainly a good suggestion if you buy used. They're not bad cars and the resale value is so low that you can get it cheap enough to just throw out if you have any major problems.

How about taking a look at the rulebook at the Grand American site and checking the race results from last year before the Neon was super restricted. Then take a look at the test data as published in most of the auto mags even though they are heavily biased against cars like the Neon and Cobalt.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by apnk I thought the Ford Focus was domistic? Anyway i would go with a Cobalt. Its basically a Cavalier (my sis has one) with a different body. Great acceleration for a 4 banger and pretty good gas mileage.

The Cobalt is a completely different car than the Cavalier it replaced. It shares no brake,chassis,suspension,interior or body components with the Cavalier. If you get a chance to drive one,do so. I think you'll find it a very capable car. When I first drove one I could'nt imagine that the structure was as stiff as it is. The Ecotech engine is damn near bullet-proof and the trans and clutch are both very durable. Nope,I didn't like the interior then and I don't like it now but at least the Hvac system puts out actual cool air when sitting still,unlike the last Acura I drove.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller How about taking a look at the rulebook at the Grand American site and checking the race results from last year before the Neon was super restricted. Then take a look at the test data as published in most of the auto mags even though they are heavily biased against cars like the Neon and Cobalt.

You're talking about the 230 hp turbocharged SRT-4 version of the Neon, right? Not the regular 132 hp engine?

 

[becomethemould]

the cobalt shares alot of stuff with the opel astra (german).. so i guess it must be fairly decent

 

[12thgear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY You're talking about the 230 hp turbocharged SRT-4 version of the Neon, right? Not the regular 132 hp engine?

Yeah, the SRT4. It's a LOT of performance for the money. I hate the Neon. I don't like the way it drives and I don't like the way it looks. But the SRT4 version feels so different it might as well be a different model. They've added an LSD too! It's a FWD compact muscle car. And while the SRT transformation hasn't made an ugly duckling into a swan, it looks a lot better.

 

[CMacDaddy]

My last car burnt up at 130,000 miles. It literally just burnt to the ground. I dont know why it burnt. There was no abuse. All I do know is I'm not gonna buy another Ford.

My parent's last 3 cars have reached 100,000 miles without any problem outside of normal. They are all 3 GM.

If you're looking domestic brand new or used, I'd go with Chevy, GM, Pontiac over any Ford, Mercury, Lincoln.

 

[Lil_JV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller Do you watch Grand American Racing at all? The Chevy Cobalt and Dodge Neon literally run circles around cars like the Acura TSX,RSX,BMW 330,Mazda Rx-8 and BMW Z-4. In unrestricted form the Cobalt and Neon are so fast they actually lapped the field in a 40 minute race. If you don't know what that means,it means they passed every car in the race twice. Both cars are now straddled with exhaust,intake and boost restrictions that have allowed the other cars to compete.

You're are talking about the Colbalt SS and SRT-4 right? That would make the outcome pretty obvious. When I referred to the Colbalt I meant the regular one. You are talking about the SS. It is like me saying that a Subaru WRX could beat XXXX car. You disagree, and I come back saying yes the WRX STi could. They're two different cars.

Quote:

The Chevy Cobalt is forced to race in this series with less boost than a car rolling off the showroom floor and with the same exhaust manifolds and intake. It also had 200 pounds of weight added to further slow it down. The restrictions on the Neon are far,far worse and they were so fast they often beat up on BMW M3s when the ST and GS classes raced on the same course in mileage based events. The fact is, other than in magazines, the only place cars like Civics and Acuras actually compete with cars like the Cobalts and Neons is in the minds of their owners. The always fun Domestic vs. Import nights at the local dragstrip (Route 66 raceway )were so lopsided in favor of the domestics like the Neons and Cobalts,the import guys just stopped showing up and the series had to be cancelled. I always get a kick when import fans talk about how their cars are "better". You gotta have a dream.

In regards to this, re-read the title of the post. It doesn't say "Need car that can beat a Civic on a road course." Their is no doubt in my mind that the SS and SRT-4 could toast the majority of the imports on the road. The only reason I have a bias towards the imports is because of their reliability, build quality and for the most part good looks. You gotta admit the Cobalt and SRT-4 and not the most attractive cars in the world.

Quote:

Please keep in mind I'm having a fun and can take a barb myself,so feel free to fire a return shot.

I don't consider this a return shot.

 

[Claus1100xx]

Well the cars nowadays are not 1 country cars anymore. There is no such thing as a domestic or foreign car anymore. Parts come from all over the world and R&D is done far from wherever the car is produced/sold. It all comes down to taste and money. We vote with our dollars not our voices.

 

[dave-the-rave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsione1 Let me make this more clear. It has to be a Chrysler or GM car.

Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon

Chevy Chevette

Pontiac Fiero

"Buy a car, get a check!" (Or get your head checked).

 

[bg4533]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeek My vote goes to the Honda Civic. Reliable, affordable and gets great mileage. To limit yourself to only domestic choices seems somewhat silly to me.

I got a 2005 Civic EX SE Sedan about a month ago. It is a nice car I guess. I am used to bigger more powerful cars so I am still getting used to it. It think a new Civic is being released for 2006. You might be able to pick up a new 2005 for cheap if you want.

 

[Ingo]

I think you should get some sort of turbo-diesel powered vehicle. Heck you could get a setup to make your own Biodiesel for around $0.98/gallon. In a Jetta TDI you'd get about 44mpg. I'm trying to talk my father into making Biodiesel for his pickup. I'm looking at buying a diesel pickup after Christmas this year as well. Can't beat 500+ ft/lbs of torque with 20mpg fuel economy in a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

 

[HD-5000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by apnk Why does everybody hate GM? Have you guys even own one?

Our family's last GM, a Chevy Blazer, was terrible. We replaced it with a Nissan Pathfinder which didn't spend half its life in a shop.