[XP_98]

Hello
I plan to buy a better headphone amp (I've got the Micromega Myzik) to drive my AKG Q701 (63 ohms), but more, I want to prepare future, planning afterwards to upgrade next year my headphones (expected budget : about 1200 USD / 1000 euros).
As source, I will use my Plenue 2.

My budget is about 1200 USD / 1000 euros.
After a little research, the Lehmann Audio Linear seems a good choice, because of his versatility making it able to fit to a wide range of headphones.
But isn't it a mistake to buy today a headphone amp that has no balanced output ?
A challenger in the same price range could be the Cayin IHA-6 (has balanced output).
Thank you for your advices

Marantz CD-60, Minidisc Sharp MT877, Iriver ifp590

 

[mysticstryk]

Balanced or not makes no difference. Some of the best amps you can buy from boutique amp builders like Eddie Current and Donald North Audio are single ended.

 

[obobskivich]

No, I wouldn't say its a mistake at all. "Balanced" (should be "differential" but don't tell the marketeers) is still very much a niche thing, and nothing out and out requires it (apart from electrostats, but those have other drive requirements that preclude using any conventional dynamic hp amp) - most headphone amps aren't balanced, and the same goes for other devices that drive headphones. Get whatever amplifier you like - odds are it will be SE just because that's more common.

 

[XP_98]

Ok, so the Lehman Audio Linear seems still a good choice for a "middle level" headphone amp ?

 

[obobskivich]

I don't have ears-on experience with the Lehmann but if I remember right that's the one that's OEM'd in China for them, and the company (or some other brand) sells the same hardware out the other door of the factory for like $200-300/ea without the Lehmann branding - I'm not saying "wow that means its bad" but OTOH I'm not a big fan of supporting Lexicon/Theta/Goldmund-style brand engineering (because I don't see there being any "value add" to it).

Something *else* I would point out to you: amplifier synergy isn't an entirely nonsense concept. You would probably have a better time figuring out what headphone you want, and then buying an amplifier that's a good match for them, rather than just throwing down a lot of money on whatever expensive amplifier you can find, and hoping for the best when it comes time to buy a new headphone. I'm not saying "because it will be incompatible" because it probably won't, but I am saying that at this level you're looking very much at diminishing returns writ large, and frankly I'd say its worth fussing over synergy as a result. Random example/illustration for you (from my own collection) - I own the Grado RS-1 and the Audio-Technica ATH-W5000, and their associated matching amps (the RA-1 and the AT-HA5000). Both are fine amps that can drive any headphone in my collection (and probably the majority of dynamic headphones ever made), but frankly there is at least *something* to the wives tales about RA-1 and RS-1 jiving really well together, and the same for W5000 and HA5000. Sure, I listen to the RS-1 on the HA5000, and the W5000 on the RA-1, but if I were only to buy one setup (e.g. I had no interest in collection), I would be less happy if I had bought HA5000 just to use with RS-1, or vice versa. None of the gear in this example is "bad gear" and none of it performs "wrong" or is malfunctioning or anything, and this is where that whole "synergy" thing pops in. Point is - start with the headphones you want (or think you want) and work backwards from there to find an amplifier. Additionally this is a good idea because if you pick a headphone that's hard to drive or has esoteric requirements (say you pick an electrostat for example) you can then get an amplifier that will actually be compatible, vs being left with gear that can't work together, or being forced to compromise on the headphones just because its what your very expensive amplifier supports (and really the headphones are the more important part of the equation IMO/IME).

EDIT:

@Currawong called me on my hyperbole, so I fixed it.

 

[Currawong]

You can't use a balanced output with a Q701 anyway.

Balanced headphone drive, like OTL, transformer coupled, transconductance, hybrid, differential or whatever are just design choices. It so happens that one particular type of circuit requires a different kind of connection to the regular one.

Honestly the price inflation that "headphone amps" have undergone in the last few years is just disgusting imho - we've gone from $300-400 amps being "high end" to $1k+ boxes being "entry level" and some manufacturers wanting $10k+ for their offerings.

@obobskivich This is just not true. I've never seen anyone suggest that a $1k box is "entry level" and I can only think of two commercial amps that are over $10k.

 

[obobskivich]

@obobskivich This is just not true. I've never seen anyone suggest that a $1k box is "entry level" and I can only think of two commercial amps that are over $10k.

You know, I'm not even gonna argue you on this - it was a hyperbolic exaggeration of the upward trend in pricing, and while things certainly have "gotten a lot more expensive" at the upper end of the world of amps, I'd say they've also gotten "a lot better" (and that's all around). My real objection was seeing a $1k+ amp (like the BCL) put up as "mid range" and the knee-jerk reaction to the trend of price inflation in amplification that we've seen throughout hi-fi (you know the "Stereophile thing" where "$3k integrated amp = entry level" or "$10k DAC = what an amazing value!" kind of inflation).

Should go without saying: I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[XP_98]

I don't have ears-on experience with the Lehmann but if I remember right that's the one that's OEM'd in China for them, and the company (or some other brand) sells the same hardware out the other door of the factory for like $200-300/ea without the Lehmann branding - I'm not saying "wow that means its bad" but OTOH I'm not a big fan of supporting Lexicon/Theta/Goldmund-style brand engineering (because I don't see there being any "value add" to it).

Something *else* I would point out to you: amplifier synergy isn't an entirely nonsense concept. You would probably have a better time figuring out what headphone you want, and then buying an amplifier that's a good match for them, rather than just throwing down a lot of money on whatever expensive amplifier you can find, and hoping for the best when it comes time to buy a new headphone. I'm not saying "because it will be incompatible" because it probably won't, but I am saying that at this level you're looking very much at diminishing returns writ large, and frankly I'd say its worth fussing over synergy as a result. Random example/illustration for you (from my own collection) - I own the Grado RS-1 and the Audio-Technica ATH-W5000, and their associated matching amps (the RA-1 and the AT-HA5000). Both are fine amps that can drive any headphone in my collection (and probably the majority of dynamic headphones ever made), but frankly there is at least *something* to the wives tales about RA-1 and RS-1 jiving really well together, and the same for W5000 and HA5000. Sure, I listen to the RS-1 on the HA5000, and the W5000 on the RA-1, but if I were only to buy one setup (e.g. I had no interest in collection), I would be less happy if I had bought HA5000 just to use with RS-1, or vice versa. None of the gear in this example is "bad gear" and none of it performs "wrong" or is malfunctioning or anything, and this is where that whole "synergy" thing pops in. Point is - start with the headphones you want (or think you want) and work backwards from there to find an amplifier. Additionally this is a good idea because if you pick a headphone that's hard to drive or has esoteric requirements (say you pick an electrostat for example) you can then get an amplifier that will actually be compatible, vs being left with gear that can't work together, or being forced to compromise on the headphones just because its what your very expensive amplifier supports (and really the headphones are the more important part of the equation IMO/IME).

EDIT:

@Currawong called me on my hyperbole, so I fixed it.

Thank you for taking the time to write this detailed answer

* Is there a "china brand" that builds the Lehmann selling in Europe ?

* I understand your argument, but my thoughts were :
Today I want a better headphone amp to drive my Q701 that I already have. I can't afford to spend 2400 USD / 2000 euros buying at one time a new headphone AND a new amp next year (and my wife surely won't agree ...)
So I'm searching for a good amp for today, with a broad span of choice of new headphone tomorrow.
But maybe it's a wrong way...

 

[XP_98]

You know, I'm not even gonna argue you on this - it was a hyperbolic exaggeration of the upward trend in pricing, and while things certainly have "gotten a lot more expensive" at the upper end of the world of amps, I'd say they've also gotten "a lot better" (and that's all around). My real objection was seeing a $1k+ amp (like the BCL) put up as "mid range" and the knee-jerk reaction to the trend of price inflation in amplification that we've seen throughout hi-fi (you know the "Stereophile thing" where "$3k integrated amp = entry level" or "$10k DAC = what an amazing value!" kind of inflation).

Should go without saying: I agree with the rest of your post.

Surely you're right, I spoke of "mid level" because during my readings and searching for a new amp, I saw a lot of cheaper amps and ALSO A LOT of pricier amps... So it looked like the Lehmann was in the middle...

 

[obobskivich]

Thank you for taking the time to write this detailed answer

* Is there a "china brand" that builds the Lehmann selling in Europe ?

I don't remember the brand names that it went under - I know there were multiple that became somewhat popular a while ago. A quick ebay search didn't reveal much, but maybe I wasn't using the right terms. If I remember right one of the more popular ones had "Matrix" in its name somewhere - plugging that into a search engine (I searched for "matrix + lehmann") and I arrived back on Head-Fi, here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/matrix-m-stage-clone-vs-lehmann-black-cube-linear.494871/

Which also led to what I was trying to remember - the "Lovely Cube" clones -
http://www.alicemagicbox.com/lasercollection/lovelycube.html

Certainly worth reading up on - they look very similar (if not identical) in pictures, but there seems to be some disagreement on "do they sound the same."

* I understand your argument, but my thoughts were :
Today I want a better headphone amp to drive my Q701 that I already have. I can't afford to spend 2400 USD / 2000 euros buying at one time a new headphone AND a new amp next year (and my wife surely won't agree ...)
So I'm searching for a good amp for today, with a broad span of choice of new headphone tomorrow.
But maybe it's a wrong way...

My advice would be to either save up and do it all at once, or do the research on the headphone today, figure out what amplifier you want, and go that route first. However that seems a bit backwards to me - you probably already have a headphone amplifier driving your Q701, right?

IME headphone amps tend to be a pretty solid case for "diminishing returns" and frankly I think its a better use of resources to go for better headphones first - maybe whatever you settle on would work great with whatever drives your Q701 today. There is not, IME, a good case for "night and day improvements" of a headphone going to a fancier amp (even with that weird synergy voodoo at play). The cans make the biggest difference in sonics and fidelity, so that's where I'd start.

Surely you're right, I spoke of "mid level" because during my readings and searching for a new amp, I saw a lot of cheaper amps and ALSO A LOT of pricier amps... So it looked like the Lehmann was in the middle...

And that "a lot of pricier amps" is basically the hi-fi price inflation I was griping about, but as @Currawong pointed out, that hasn't hit headphone amplifiers as aggressively as it has with the broader hi-fi world (I remember there was a thread a while back where someone speculated this might be due to the different demographics of headphone hi-fi and conventional audiophile 2ch systems), but certainly there has been upward movement. In some cases this isn't always a bad thing, because there's a lot of "new faces" trying to offer higher value products, but in other cases it just means we're going to end up paying more for what we want. I know the Lehmann specifically was a somewhat controversial amplifier "back in the day" mostly because of the clones - for all I know they're just cheap clones and it really is "magic" somehow, but OTOH it wouldn't be the first time a niche brand was "caught" trying to extract significantly higher price out of a design just by badge engineering their name onto it. I wish I had a more definitive answer on that, but basically all I can do is say "go do research on this" - if I were considered the BCL I'd absolutely want to know for certain which way that all lays out, assuming anyone other than the people at Lehmann actually know.

But more broadly than that, I'd really reiterate that it should be "headphones first" - I get the push to have a nice amplifier "for now, and for later" but frankly it just feels like a backwards way of doing things.

 

[loki993]

Im going to come in here too..ID hardly call a 1200 dollar amp "mid level...." I've not heard the Linear but for 1200 dollars..eh I don't know. Im sure the more you spend the better amps get but there are significant diminishing returns too, also if I ever was spending 1200 dollars on an amp it would have tubes in it.

get the headphones you want..then save up a bit..500 or so and get something from lake people/violectric, schiit and anyone else that has something good in that price range you like.

 

[cossix]

Balanced amps don't automatically have better sound quality than single ended. There is a physical electrical benefit to running balanced, but not everybody can hear the difference. The reason I use balanced with the Jotunheim is because it puts out more power than it's own single ended jack.

 

[XP_98]

Ok, thank you all. So I'd better wait.

Just a word about balanced : 2 weeks ago, I bought a balanced cable for my Fitear Togo334 lEMs, and I really noticed an improvement in sound (better clarity, better bass).