[akelew]

I thought the volume stage and the op amps are what makes the Burson "unique" . Why would you want to take that out of the equation?

Burson offers the option to skip the op-amps (just the volume stage ones, along with the volume circuitry) so your still using burson op-amps in the signal path, just not as many of them adding on top of each other.

The effect of power amp mode is less about power and more about using less circuits.

Ok, i guess i am completely misunderstanding how it works then. I figured some of the change comes from skipping the whole volume stage circuitry. I know that the volume stage circuitry works by reducing the signal going into the amplification stage, and so if you remove that stage, your amp will always be running at full power (maximum volume or -0db), so i thought that would have a similar effect to how people say they have differences on low/medium/high gain settings even when compensating for the same output level. Or is that a myth? For example, if you run high gain but a low volume, or low gain at a high volume (where they both output the same db volume), does that not change the sound at all?

Appreciating the discussion, its ones of the last things ive had trouble wrapping my mind around.

 

[Moses Kwon]

I get what you are saying, but it doesn't work like that. The whole point of power amp mode is to bypass the amp's volume stage. Not just skipping 2 op-amps, but a whole volume circuitry. This is what is changing the sound to what you have described and many of us enjoy. I personally do not think you can reach the milder effect you theoretically seek and I also don't support the idea of lowering the DAC output level and then compensating volume on the amp. The effect of power amp mode is less about power and more about using less circuits.

The preference of power amp mode vs. normal mode mostly depends on headphones (also DACs, you need good quality DACs for good result), but indeed perhaps the majority here prefers power amp mode.

 

[Moses Kwon]

In my case, I connected the 3rd amp for Power amp mode because my DAC didn't have volume control. Initially, it provided a very clean sound and better punch. However, it was too fatiguing after some time. Then I purchased Composer. I expected a lot about Power amp, but normal mode was a lot more smoother and fun. I don't know if I'm missing something. I use Arya as my main headphone. I know the majority here prefer Power amp mode, but I wonder if you use a specific DAC that has a perfect match with Power amp mode. Even though Composer is the official combo for Soloist, I don't think it has a good match with Power amp mode. Of course, it is my subjective opinion. How was your experience?

 

[ekjellgren]

If I want to switch between the inputs, RCA and XLR, do I also have to disconnect the source cables that are not currently in use?

 

[betula]

Ok, i guess i am completely misunderstanding how it works then. I figured some of the change comes from skipping the whole volume stage circuitry. I know that the volume stage circuitry works by reducing the signal going into the amplification stage, and so if you remove that stage, your amp will always be running at full power (maximum volume or -0db), so i thought that would have a similar effect to how people say they have differences on low/medium/high gain settings even when compensating for the same output level. Or is that a myth? For example, if you run high gain but a low volume, or low gain at a high volume (where they both output the same db volume), does that not change the sound at all?

Appreciating the discussion, its ones of the last things ive had trouble wrapping my mind around.

Gain setting plays a role in power amp mode as well, as it controls the signal before it enters the circuit. This is quite a useful read about basic terms.
In general you should choose the lowest gain setting, where you can comfortably use the volume knob between 10-2 o'clock (or volume range around the middle).

Low gain/high volume vs. high gain/low volume in theory shouldn't really sound different, yet in certain cases it might. Neither of these is a good approach though, it should be the lowest possible gain/medium volume. On the 3XP high gain for example is simply too much for most headphones and they start to distort. Pretty much all the headphones I used needed medium gain.

There are more knowledgeable members here who perhaps can chip in and explain this a bit further and clearer than I am able to.

In a nutshell, the main point of power amp mode is not how powerful the signal is but which path it is travelling through.

In my case, I connected the 3rd amp for Power amp mode because my DAC didn't have volume control. Initially, it provided a very clean sound and better punch. However, it was too fatiguing after some time. Then I purchased Composer. I expected a lot about Power amp, but normal mode was a lot more smoother and fun. I don't know if I'm missing something. I use Arya as my main headphone. I know the majority here prefer Power amp mode, but I wonder if you use a specific DAC that has a perfect match with Power amp mode. Even though Composer is the official combo for Soloist, I don't think it has a good match with Power amp mode. Of course, it is my subjective opinion. How was your experience?

It is more about headphones than DACs. I imagine with brighter and/or more dynamic/forward headphones power amp mode would not necessarily be the preferred one.

If I want to switch between the inputs, RCA and XLR, do I also have to disconnect the source cables that are not currently in use?

In normal mode you select the inputs in the menu. In power amp mode I imagine the 3XP will prefer XLR to RCA, but I am not sure. There is nothing about it in the manual. It is a question for Burson, or you can simply try I guess.

 

[ekjellgren]

If I want to switch between the inputs, RCA and XLR, do I also have to disconnect the source cables that are not currently in use?

I tried leaving them both in and is was fine to switch between them with the remote. They were connected to different DAC:s I wanted to compare.
I think I might have mixed things up with reading about not to connect the different headphone outputs simultaniously?

 

[Sharppain]

Thanks everyone for the plethora of information... really considering getting the Burson Soloist 3X... a couple more questions have come to mind:
1/ Can the Burson Soloist 3X be considered a definite upgrade (noise floor, technicality) to the Violectic V200 (when single-ended output is used on both), or is it more of a change in signature?
2/ Is anyone using the Burson Soloist 3X with Fostex TH900 headphones? Wondered about this specific pairing, and whether the amp benefits headphones even if they aren't difficult to drive (such as the Denon / Fostex biodynamics...)?

The low gain of Soloist 3X Performance has quite a low noise floor. I have no hiss with sensitive iems from Fiio, ThieAudio and Campfire. But I am using the linear power supply brick since that improves also the FR reproduction giving it full completeness, marvelous tone separation and clarity, and great depth and wideness of sound stage.
Yes, I use the TH900 and Hifiman HE6se with the Soloist - it envelopes their full potential. T50rp, T60rp, DT880 pro 600 ohms are peanuts for the Soloist.

 

[MardukSonofEa]

In my case, I connected the 3rd amp for Power amp mode because my DAC didn't have volume control. Initially, it provided a very clean sound and better punch. However, it was too fatiguing after some time. Then I purchased Composer. I expected a lot about Power amp, but normal mode was a lot more smoother and fun. I don't know if I'm missing something. I use Arya as my main headphone. I know the majority here prefer Power amp mode, but I wonder if you use a specific DAC that has a perfect match with Power amp mode. Even though Composer is the official combo for Soloist, I don't think it has a good match with Power amp mode. Of course, it is my subjective opinion. How was your experience?

Yeah I've noticed the people who like power amp mode on this thread tend to have headphones like Verite Closed or Meze Empyrean/Elite. I didn't notice any Arya owners like us who prefer power amp mode, but would be helpful to hear from someone like that if they're out there (maybe I missed it).

My understanding is the Composer is a delta sigma DAC, though one of the smoother ones, so I'm not surprised that aggressive DAC + aggressive power amp + aggressive headphones would be too much of a good thing.

I have a Bifrost 2 coming this week and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it gels with the Soloist in normal amp mode and Arya. If the Bifrost feels like it softens the presentation too much for hard hitting metal tracks, I'll try the power amp mode.

 

[David222]

Yeah I've noticed the people who like power amp mode on this thread tend to have headphones like Verite Closed or Meze Empyrean/Elite. I didn't notice any Arya owners like us who prefer power amp mode, but would be helpful to hear from someone like that if they're out there (maybe I missed it).

My understanding is the Composer is a delta sigma DAC, though one of the smoother ones, so I'm not surprised that aggressive DAC + aggressive power amp + aggressive headphones would be too much of a good thing.

I have a Bifrost 2 coming this week and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it gels with the Soloist in normal amp mode and Arya. If the Bifrost feels like it softens the presentation too much for hard hitting metal tracks, I'll try the power amp mode.

Your observation is generally correct. Many harder to drive dynamics or planars (He6se v2) benefit (more so) from Headphone mode. With low(er) impedance cans, it's important to be mindful in one's approach, as the 3XP is very powerful/capable under the "default" settings.

 

[Sharppain]

Your observation is generally correct. Many harder to drive dynamics or planars (He6se v2) benefit (more so) from Headphone mode. With low(er) impedance cans, it's important to be mindful in one's approach, as the 3XP is very powerful/capable under the "default" settings.

I think that conclusion is a bit exaggerated. Just the discussion is different. I listen to my Arya and HD800s on the Burson and that is the best amp to run these. I had tried Vioelectric 200 and different Schiit-s but they are either two warm either weak to run these best, according to me. The Soloist 3XP with the Supercharger opened a new level of space for my power hungry headphones, but it is good enough, at low gain, to run 98% of my iems, and it runs without hiss my favourites like Z1R, UM Mest, IE80, IE800, the Etymotic-s, Blessing2 Dusk, JVCs

 

[David222]

I think that conclusion is a bit exaggerated.

What is it you find exaggerated?

Just the discussion is different. I listen ro my Arya and HD800s on the Burson and that is the best amp to run these. I had tried Vioelectric 200 and different Schiit-s but they are either two warm either weak to run these best, according to me.

Those are nice headphones. Sorry to hear your other AMPs were weak... glad you ended up in camp Burson.

The Soloist 3XP with the Supercharger opened a new level of space for my power hungry headphones, but it is good enough, at low gain, to run 98% of my iems, and it runs without hiss my favourites like Z1R, UM Mest, IE80, IE800, the Etymotic-s, Blessing2 Dusk, JVCs

I'm not totally following what this has to do with the previous post/observation re: Arya's and HP Mode?

 

[Sharppain]

What is it you find exaggerated?



Those are nice headphones. Sorry to hear your other AMPs were weak... glad you ended up in camp Burson.



I'm not totally following what this has to do with the previous post/observation re: Arya's and HP Mode?

Well, let me put it short and simple - I think that the Soloist 3XP is not an aggressive amp. Powerful - yes, but not - aggressive.

 

[MardukSonofEa]

Well, let me put it short and simple - I think that the Soloist 3XP is not an aggressive amp. Powerful - yes, but not - aggressive.

The person you're responding to wasn't the one who called the Soloist aggressive, that was me (and I was talking mostly about others' descriptions of power amp mode). Let me clarify because I know that was an oversimplification - I meant the Soloist has a very quick attack - though it hits the peak in smooth way - and a punchy sound, and supposedly in power amp mode that is even more pronounced, so I can imagine pairing power amp mode with headphones and a DAC that are also fast and punchy, you could get a sound that's "too" dynamic for some and it gets fatiguing. I acknowledge that's just speculation on my part, as I haven't heard neither the Composer nor power amp mode.

 

[Sharppain]

The person you're responding to wasn't the one who called the Soloist aggressive, that was me (and I was talking mostly about others' descriptions of power amp mode). Let me clarify because I know that was an oversimplification - I meant the Soloist has a very quick attack - though it hits the peak in smooth way - and a punchy sound, and supposedly in power amp mode that is even more pronounced, so I can imagine pairing power amp mode with headphones and a DAC that are also fast and punchy, you could get a sound that's "too" dynamic for some and it gets fatiguing. I acknowledge that's just speculation on my part, as I haven't heard neither the Composer nor power amp mode.

Well, let me give more info from my side also. My Soloist 3XP is run from 4 different dacs and each dac has a purpose: SU-9 neutral and top analytics; Zen Dac V2 neutral and fun; Myteck Liberty DAC for tight low end and vocals and more relaxed top end; Denafrips Ares II - 3D, soundstage, depth, complete and balanced enjoyment. What you describe I can slightly, really slightly, feel with the SU-9 only.

 

[akelew]

What you describe I can slightly, really slightly, feel with the SU-9 only.

Your talking about running the soloist in power amp mode, right? With the volume dial disabled?