[normie610]

You'd have to think that conductor 3x ref is pretty close to the composer 3x + soloist 3x. On paper theres not much diff. The soloist might be a little better amp than conductor based on @raoultrifan and his testing and the conductor has dual dacs, composer single.

Yes they should sound pretty close. In terms of MCPS, the stack has more with a total of 7, whereas the Conductor 3XR has 5 of them. But as you stated, the DAC is only one in the stack vs two in 3XR. So perhaps the combination provide just a tad different character. But agree, the stack vs 3XR should sound similar.

 

[Sam Spade]

Ouch, those cables are expensive, I decided to give these LQI Voda Series a go...don't need durability as I am close to my listening station (got the 4' ones) and no pets or young kids to get wrapped up in them

I also ordered their 4.4 to dual XLR 3-pin, but have inquired about compatibility w/ the Burson.

yes my strategy was buy well buy once and as I have 2-3 Audeze headphones they are interchangeable. Excellent innards and a strong PVC? sheath.

June 2020: Parsec Headphone 2.5mm 4 pole to Audeze 1.5m would be around AU$259. XLR 4 pole to Audeze balanced connectors were $349 for 3M. 5m cost me a bit more but I can't find the price. $au is about 75 US cents.

 

[Sam Spade]

Really helpful, thank you so much @Sam Spade

my pleasure, it's a good community here

 

[Sam Spade]

Yes they should sound pretty close. In terms of MCPS, the stack has more with a total of 7, whereas the Conductor 3XR has 5 of them. But as you stated, the DAC is only one in the stack vs two in 3XR. So perhaps the combination provide just a tad different character. But agree, the stack vs 3XR should sound similar.

I'd bet a pair of Audeze planars that neither of us could pick the difference in a double blind listening test

 

[normie610]

I'd bet a pair of Audeze planars

Let’s do a big mac meal instead

 

[pgkrish]

OK this is a conglomerate of previous posts sorry if there's repetition.

I've got a Sparkos Aries running from a Chord Qutest (sorry just gloating) for my home office. It is insanely good. I have the Conductor 3X ref in my main system which has a remote.

No remote for the Aries, that's a deal breaker for me in lounge room for music and AV. NO problem on desk of my home office. Same with the Qutest, also neither have bluetooth.

I've got sparkos dual pro opamps to try in my conductor 3X reference. I already have the vivids and the classics. It might be tricky to fit the Sparko pros in but I've got 3 solutions in my head. I got them before xmas. I'll post what they are like and how I installed them. If you can wait you might decide to try the sparko pros. I know they are more expensive, $55 more for dual pros with the adaptor so $110 more for a pair of dual Pros, but why not get the best? (actually it's slightly cheaper than that when you buy the pair)

Pros are singles, but Andrew was even nice enough to solder the pros together with the PRO TO DIP ADAPTER to make duals as I don't have a fine soldering iron for that fine work.

I have the Burson Conductor 3X ref which is a dac/headamp, but the DAC makes it a different configuration however the amp is in the same family as the Soloist. I bought a pair of V6 classics as Burson advised me to change the 2 classics for my Conductor 3x ref I haven't tried yet. Burson advised me to only change the LP stage and leave the V6 vivids in the IV stage. Lachlan from passion from sound said the same. If you have 4 classics you could change them in the LP (low pass) stage and listen, then change the ones in the IV Stage (IV =current to voltage ) and listen. Then all 4. I'm not 100% sure that the soloist pairs would be designated LP and IV though as it is an amp, not a dac+amp. I'd email burson.

In the end I would say change 1 pair at a time, listen, then the other, then all 4. see what you like best.

Andrew Sparko and I discussed this when I ordered a pair of his Sparko Pro op amps. He has advised others to change both pairs but was happy for me to try 2 pairs of pros. And they are much larger and draw more current. I might not be able to fit 4 in. Lachlan raved about the standard sparko opamps so I'm keen to try the pros.

Andrew sparko says......

So the signal output from the DAC chip itself is differential in nature (like an XLR, it has a HOT and COLD, or... in phase, and out of phase) and it is a CURRENT output. So it puts out a CURRENT based signal (rather than a voltage signal)

The point is though, that the current signal must be converted back to a voltage based signal at some point. And That is what I to V converters do. (the "I" stands for current, and the "V" stands for voltage)

Since it is a differential signal, you need two op amps for the I to V conversion. One op amp does the "hot side" and the other does the "cold side" Just like an XLR signal would have.

Then.... These differential signals get subtracted from each other in a final stage (diff amp stage, where they also usually do the filtering) to convert the differential signal back to single ended.

So most DACs will have 2 op amps for I to V conversion, and a final stage for Diff amping / filtering. 3 op amps per channel, 6 op amps total in a stereo configuration. That sounds like what they are doing.

I would say that they all should be discrete. Its not like the I to V converters are more or less important than the diffamp / filter stage is.

The Burson discrete OPA's pull quite a bit of current themselves when compared to what ICs pull, so the current draw should be OK as they seem to confirm.

Now, all of that being said, some guys will play around with things and decide that some op amp sounds better in the I to V stages, and some OTHER op amps sounds better in the Diffamp / filter stage. All of that is user preference and subjective and up to the end user at the end of the day.

And that is what makes all of this fun, right? Ha.

I hope all of that makes sense. Maybe Lachlan decided some IC sounded better in the I to V stages, and discrete sounded better in the Diffamp / Filter stage. ​

But I haven't tried the DUAL DISCRETE OP AMP SS3602 and I have got a conductor. But the soloist and the conductor have very similar amp sections. So my findings for the Conductor should match the soloist except for fitting mechanics as the layout is different.

Other than fitting the Sparko pros there is one issue, current draw. Burson said:

120ma is very high, it will not work in many applications but our Conductor is designed for opamp rolling so there is enough headroom for such current draw.

So when discussing V6 classics also Burson advised me to only change the LP stage and leave the V6 vivids in the IV stage. Lachlan at passion for sound said the same thing in one of his youtube reviews I think it was the soloist, or it may have been the Sparko opamps review. But Andrew from Sparko strongly recommended changing all 4 to a customer. I emailed him about that and he said you need to work out what the opamp is doing and if say it is running the balanced XLR outputs and you don't use them, then no need to change, but if you do use XLR change it.

So I might end up changing all 4, but I'm only changing the LP stage for the moment.

OK pro's into the conductor 3X reference are a work in progress PRO TO DUAL DIP8 ADAPTER and PRO DISCRETE OP AMP SS2590. Pics below. Note the placement of op amps and space/ height are different for different burson products so the soloist might be different solution due to opamp placement and lid height/room.

I didn't have a fine soldering iron so Andrew soldered 2 of the Pros and the dip 8 adapter for me and I currently have two dual PROs. Andrew is great just ask and let him know you've spoken to me.

At the moment I'm looking for a mounting solution for the two duals for LP stage. Once I've solved that I'll think about the IP stage. I have been able to get it up and running but not with the lid on. I'm pretty sure I can fix that. It immediately sounded better which didn't surprise, the Sparko Aries is full of PRO DISCRETE OP AMP SS2590 and it's sublime. But I only had a quick listen and I now have a problem with the CX3 ref, I think it might have shorted when I changed headphones. So I'm testing the C3X ref, it will probably have to go back to Melbourne.

120 milliamp is high for a pair of duals, that goes up to 240 for 2 pairs. That's a lot higher than the Burson current draw V6 Duals are 14mA, 28 for a pair of duals, 56 for two pairs

For products that help replace OEM opamps regarding space I've found some options.

Burson have 35 mm extension leads. If you are careful and bend them slowly you can bend them without breaking the wire. They have other stuff too. https://www.bursonaudio.com/product/35mm-extension-lead-x-2/

These are longer, 40mm? and look more flexible https://www.pornfreen.top/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=218375

This site is good and the short ones than come pre bent:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001345216954.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.1.1ecb48b85X3XFs&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.14976.197020.0&scm_id=1007.14976.197020.0&scm-url=1007.14976.197020.0&pvid=067666d7-6398-4268-8c27-ea20cc9e9309&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.14976.197020.0,pvid:067666d7-6398-4268-8c27-ea20cc9e9309,tpp_buckets:668#0#131923#0_668#888#3325#2_4976#0#197020#11_4976#2711#7538#278_4976#3104#9653#10_4976#4052#21623#67_4976#3141#9887#2_668#2846#8113#1998_668#2717#7564#650_668#1000022185#1000066059#0_668#3422#15392#933_4452#0#189847#0_4452#3474#15675#128_4452#4862#22449#76_4452#3098#9599#90_4452#3564#16062#402

These will be part of my final solution I expect:



Also recommended by Andrew Sparko. He said: "Digikey is a place like mouser. They just sell electronic parts and they sell pretty much everything."

Here's my work in progress:
Sparko pros as you can see the pin 1 orientation is pretty obvious:


Sparko pros, Burson V6 Classics, burson Dip 8 sockets mini extenders, burson 35 mm dip 8 extenders bent and unbent (be careful):



Conductor opamp configuration:



This shows how tight it is:


Lid off solution with Burson 35mm adaptors bent:





Can't run it with the lid on yet.

Some are more fanatical than me



Cheers
Sam

Wow this was super detailed and helpful

 

[JWahl]

In case anyone is interested, I've placed some orders relevant to the Soloist 3X. First I've ordered a Quad of the SparkoS Op-Amps (non-pro). I've also ordered an iFi Neo iDSD (Which I've already reviewed a loaner) and a Schiit Bifrost 2, with the intent of returning the one I prefer less. Thankfully, both Schiit and Bloom Audio seem to have fair return policies with a modest restocking fee. I preferred the Neo to the Modius during the loaner review, but I really wanted to try it against the Bifrost 2. Also, I ordered the (discounted) Hifiman HE-6SE V2 since the Soloist 3X should theoretically drive it sufficiently, and to have another comparison perspective besides just my HD-650. I think I'll be done upgrading for awhile after this (hopefully). I almost....almost....decided to abandon the DAC upgrade and Hifiman in favor of stretching to a discounted Focal Stellia, but decided against it. Maybe that will be the eventual next step once I have enough disposable income.

 

[Sam Spade]

Good to know. Thank you.
I have Soloist + Composer combo too, both running on stock Vivid opamps.
What I like about it - transparency, separation and details , the drawback is may be that it is too sterile sometimes.
I used to listen to more warm sound in the past (Burr-brown based DACs) so I need more time to get used to a "new sound"

I believe it also depends on your headphones. My planars are quite linear - no treble peaks, everting sounds crystal clear with stock units.

Did you try Classic Duals before or you went directly to Sparkos?

I have V6 dual classics x2 as i ordered some other stuff from burson and got it posted together. Havent tried the classics yet. The sparko dual reviews sold me and andrews comments on the pros sold them. No compromise etc. The only issue is bit more cost and size.

 

[Sam Spade]

In case anyone is interested, I've placed some orders relevant to the Soloist 3X. First I've ordered a Quad of the SparkoS Op-Amps (non-pro). I've also ordered an iFi Neo iDSD (Which I've already reviewed a loaner) and a Schiit Bifrost 2, with the intent of returning the one I prefer less. Thankfully, both Schiit and Bloom Audio seem to have fair return policies with a modest restocking fee. I preferred the Neo to the Modius during the loaner review, but I really wanted to try it against the Bifrost 2. Also, I ordered the (discounted) Hifiman HE-6SE V2 since the Soloist 3X should theoretically drive it sufficiently, and to have another comparison perspective besides just my HD-650. I think I'll be done upgrading for awhile after this (hopefully). I almost....almost....decided to abandon the DAC upgrade and Hifiman in favor of stretching to a discounted Focal Stellia, but decided against it. Maybe that will be the eventual next step once I have enough disposable income.

Any thoughts on comparisons with Qutest compared to other dacs you're using/ getting and the DAC in the conductor you had?

 

[JWahl]

Any thoughts on comparisons with Qutest compared to other dacs you're using/ getting and the DAC in the conductor you had?

I haven't gotten to listen to any of the Conductor series, only the (original) Playmate as a loaner. That led me to the Fun, which then led me to the Soloist 3X. The challenge about trying to make comparisons to the Qutest is that it's been about 2 years since I sold it, and I used different amplifiers with it which aren't really on the same level as the Soloist 3X. I wouldn't mind hearing it again one day if I didn't have to pay for it (like at a meet after we're all past COVID), but I don't have enough interest to drop even the used-price cost on one at the moment. On very rough memory, I think the Qutest might outperform the iDSD Neo, but maybe by 5-10% for over double the price. I do remember thinking that the Qutest + iFi iUSB Nano came close to the Schiit Yggdrasil, but only after adding the iUSB Nano as a power supply. Chord DACs tend to be rather sensitive to coupled RF noise in my experience. Even some cheap snap-on ferrite cores over the cables seem to help some. When I sold it, I wasn't unhappy with it by any means and I didn't want to sell it, per se, but it was hard to justify the luxury of the expense.

 

[Bazaar]

In case anyone is interested, I've placed some orders relevant to the Soloist 3X. First I've ordered a Quad of the SparkoS Op-Amps (non-pro). I've also ordered an iFi Neo iDSD (Which I've already reviewed a loaner) and a Schiit Bifrost 2, with the intent of returning the one I prefer less. Thankfully, both Schiit and Bloom Audio seem to have fair return policies with a modest restocking fee. I preferred the Neo to the Modius during the loaner review, but I really wanted to try it against the Bifrost 2. Also, I ordered the (discounted) Hifiman HE-6SE V2 since the Soloist 3X should theoretically drive it sufficiently, and to have another comparison perspective besides just my HD-650. I think I'll be done upgrading for awhile after this (hopefully). I almost....almost....decided to abandon the DAC upgrade and Hifiman in favor of stretching to a discounted Focal Stellia, but decided against it. Maybe that will be the eventual next step once I have enough disposable income.

Interesting you're moving forward w/ the Neo...I read this review and the 'not truly balanced' comment concerned me...curious about your thoughts. And, why the Burson Composer isn't on your list, budget? I ask because I figure I'll want to upgrade my DAC as well, giving the Zen DAC Signature a go for now but ya know, GAS calls, with budget restrictions as well

 

[Sam Spade]

Interesting you're moving forward w/ the Neo...I read this review and the 'not truly balanced' comment concerned me...curious about your thoughts. And, why the Burson Composer isn't on your list, budget? I ask because I figure I'll want to upgrade my DAC as well, giving the Zen DAC Signature a go for now but ya know, GAS calls, with budget restrictions as well

Im going to look and if it doesn't exist start a "is balanced really important" thread. It will begin as my reference free brain dump and eventually i might remember the references. But the answer i currently think is " it depends". There are conflating issues cos with the ifi above it isnt dual mono but that doesn't mean it isnt balanced.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/whats-the-difference-between-dual-mono-and-balanced.409564/

 

[JWahl]

Interesting you're moving forward w/ the Neo...I read this review and the 'not truly balanced' comment concerned me...curious about your thoughts. And, why the Burson Composer isn't on your list, budget? I ask because I figure I'll want to upgrade my DAC as well, giving the Zen DAC Signature a go for now but ya know, GAS calls, with budget restrictions as well

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll have to ask an iFi rep in that thread for confirmation. Going by that review, unless iFi specifically told him it's not fully balanced, I think he may be making an incorrect assumption based on "dual mono". Dual mono doesn't imply that a circuit isn't balanced, although admittedly the term is often used very loosely nowadays. It typically implies a large degree of circuit isolation between channels, either up to mirrored power-supply channels, or going as far as dual power transformers.

The PCB for the NEO appears to use 4 channels of amplification, and page 5 of the datasheet for the DSD1793 shows pin-outs for balanced signaling from one chip. I see no reason not to assume the circuit is fully balanced from chip to output. The only exception might be if there is a volume-controller IC in use that only supports two channels. I've seen claims in reviews that it uses an analog IC volume control (similar to the Soloist 3X, but most likely the PGA23xx series), but I haven't seen any official claim of this on the product page, so I first assumed the volume control was digital. The PGA23xx series does appear to be stereo only, so two would be needed for balanced. Looking at the PCB closer, there appears to be two IC's just before the analog stage that happen to share the same number of pins as a PGA2311. Regardless, volume control is bypassed in direct mode, so it wouldn't make much sense to add two additional conversion stages for Balanced -> SE -> Balanced. It still seems likely to me that it is fully-balanced. Either way, I still enjoyed the sound and that's what matters most to me.

As far as the Composer, part of it is the higher price, and part of it is the fact that if I was going to go for a Burson DAC stage, I'd just go for the Conductor 3XP or 3XR and keep things simple and less cluttered. I've historically liked Schiit multibit DACs, having owned an Yggdrasil (Original A1) and Gungnir Multibit. I wasn't expecting to like the Neo as much as I did, but I really want to compare it to the Bifrost 2 as a sanity check. The Micro iDSD (original version) was OK at the price, but I think the Neo was a solid step up. I like the appearance and use-case flexibility of the Neo, so I'm secretly hoping it's "good enough", but we shall see.

It really makes me curious to try the Pro iDSD, but it's way out of my budget, and I've tactfully criticized iFi about the price. They'd probably let me review it if I asked, but at this point, I actually don't want to want it, if that makes sense. FWIW, the best sounding digital source I've ever heard at meets (two meets and the same person) was an AMR CD Player, so I know Thorsten has a good design ear when given a big enough budget. The fact that John Curl is given design input now as well is just icing on the cake. Although, that AMR CD player was always connected to some super high-end Eddie Current DHT amps like the Balancing Act, 4-45, and eventually The Studio (at $7,000).

 

[niji]

As far as the Composer, part of it is the higher price, and part of it is the fact that if I was going to go for a Burson DAC stage, I'd just go for the Conductor 3XP or 3XR and keep things simple and less cluttered ...

For myself, I'm thinking the justification is that with the Soloist/Composer stack you get the most flexibility of having both XLR/RCA inputs and outputs for the future.

 

[qsk78]

As far as the Composer, part of it is the higher price, and part of it is the fact that if I was going to go for a Burson DAC stage, I'd just go for the Conductor 3XP or 3XR and keep things simple and less cluttered.

If I do it now (after I tried Composer + Soloist combo) I would probably go for the Conductor 3XR instead, juts to keep it all simple as you said.
I sometimes move the combo from one room to another, it is easier with just one unit)
On the other hand I started with Soloist to replace my old amplifier and I did not know that my DAC will be Burson too)