Burson Composer 3X Performance (ESS9038, DSD512, Bluetooth, balanced output...)

[raphaelchan]

Just received my composer 3x. first listen after 1 hour burn in.I can already that it is much better than the non mb Dac in my Jot. I was looking for more dynamic and transient response with mac pro => Jot Dac balanced out => LP => Aelous
I think i found it and much more with mac pro => composer 3x balanced out => LP => Aelous I am a newbie and not musician. However, i do look for sound that draw me. I also ordered 2 classic op amp. will try that probably in few months till vivid is completely burn in. Alex said guaranteed 4-5 business day to canada. I got it in 4 business day

 

[Rioblast]

Is it required to install the "Burson_UsbAudio_v4.59.0_2019-04-02_setup.exe" to have the DAC work on Windows 10?

 

[raphaelchan]

Is it required to install the "Burson_UsbAudio_v4.59.0_2019-04-02_setup.exe" to have the DAC work on Windows 10?

I believe so. I use Mac for window the instruction Is in their manual. https://www.bursonaudio.com/downloads/.

 

[ishmaelk]

I've been noticing a slight but audible improvement in detail and imaging when I play a CD and connect the player to the coaxial input of the Composer, as compared to playing a rip of the same CD using Audirvana and the USB or the toslink inputs.
Has anyone else noticed this?
The digital to toslink cable I'm using is Amazon's own brand and the usb cable is the one provided by Burson. Maybe that's just the only reason and it's time I admit cables make a difference...

 

[Sam Spade]

I've been noticing a slight but audible improvement in detail and imaging when I play a CD and connect the player to the coaxial input of the Composer, as compared to playing a rip of the same CD using Audirvana and the USB or the toslink inputs.
Has anyone else noticed this?
The digital to toslink cable I'm using is Amazon's own brand and the usb cable is the one provided by Burson. Maybe that's just the only reason and it's time I admit cables make a difference...

Some thoughts and questions:
--Are you ripping cds using audivarna and does it compare it to a database or do multiple passes for CDs new to its database like dBpoweramp?
--from what ive read SPDIF is better than USB unless you have a really good USB source
--ive also read that 75ohm toslink shades optical.

 

[ishmaelk]

Some thoughts and questions:
--Are you ripping cds using audivarna and does it compare it to a database or do multiple passes for CDs new to its database like dBpoweramp?
--from what ive read SPDIF is better than USB unless you have a really good USB source
--ive also read that 75ohm toslink shades optical.

Hi, Sam.
I used XLD and accurate ripping with zero errors. It's what I always do whenever I rip a CD.
So, hasn't anyone noticed this same difference in sound through different inputs in the Composer?

 

[Sam Spade]

Hi, Sam.
I used XLD and accurate ripping with zero errors. It's what I always do whenever I rip a CD.
So, hasn't anyone noticed this same difference in sound through different inputs in the Composer?

I have a conductor 3Xref and haven't done the critical listening on your problem but ill try to get around to it. I think its far more likely to be your USB source than the cable.I've read a bunch of stuff about USB and haven't recalled the details, other than the best implemented USB will equal and possibly surpass SPDIF in some cases and poorly implemented USB won't. And I'm talking specific audio implementation of USB here.

In the DIYMA car audio forum I'm on everyone swears that taking phone, tablet or DAP with SPDIF output into a car DSP, particularly a helix DSP with a USB module, beats USB. And helix is top end kit. Many of these people are using apple or android phones/tablets or usually around US$1000 FiiO DAPs.

There's even strong consensus that taking USB out of a device like that and then converting it into SPDIF using a topping D10 or in my case an ifi nano ione and running it into the coax digital input beats USB comfortably. I'm doing that from an A&K SP1000M. I'm yet to try that USB direct into the DSP.

Recently someone posted that the A&K SP1000M USB into a Helix Ultra DSP beats coax in from the same source.They said:

I have a feeling that Audiotec Fischer doesn't want hires files greater than 96k to play on coaxial input as it may impact their HEC USB sales. I have purchased a HEC USB card for my Ultra and I have connected my DAP Astell & Kern Sp1000m via IFI Audio OTG and the output is mind-blowing. There is a day and night difference in Coaxial and HEC USB and the AK DAP is made a huge difference.

The A&K SP1000M is a sublime bit of kit. it is AU$3500 and I use it for so many things.. I suspect if it's true that it's due to the A&K SP1000M being a no compromise audio device and its USB setup is exceptional. It's an interesting story, the SP1000 was A&K's top model at AU$5k. Feedback to A&K was people loved it but wanted in in a smaller format. So A&K brought out the SP1000M for $3500 and it sounds the same as the $5000 model. You lose a couple of hours memory and an extra SD card slot and coax output from memory, but that's the only difference. I scored one new in the covid first wave for half price.

I said in the car audio forum: " My 3 yo AU$800 Astell & Kern AK70 smashes my head unit. And thats linking with bluetooth to an ifi USB/SPDIF converter and 75ohm coax into the ultra. Many sub $1000 FiiO units written about here beat head units. My A&K SP1000M is a whole other level as a source but its AU$3500 rrp. And i use it for so many other things. As a souce for my high quality home stereo, my top end bookshelf system on my computer desk and driving Audeze LCD3 planar headphones. "

What CD transport are you using?

So dumb questions but is XLD comparable to dB Poweramp? And is Audirvana a player and you have them all on a PC and that's your source?

 

[flitcroft]

Maybe that's just the only reason and it's time I admit cables make a difference...

I've done some reading on this recently after Lachlan from Passion for Sound raved about a digital cable. The summary is that digital cables cannot make a difference in sound quality (unless they are defective and you hear no sound). That is a black and white statement with a definitive answer that can be proven with science. Digital cables do not carry audio signals and interference doesn't suddenly change the 1s and 0s to affect sound positively or negatively. It is impossible for interference to change sound quality since there is no sound traveling down a USB cable. Instead, errors are discovered, packets resent, and bit-perfect data is received. USB is also not sent in real-time as you may read from audiophiles. It's correct to assume the data is always perfect unless you discover a defect. A free USB cable from Burson performs 100% identical to a $1,000 cable. That's the reason the Internet exists -- digital data is sent and received perfectly every time, trillions of times a second.

Here's a discussion of how USB audio works from the man who programmed the DAC in the Composer: https://www.edn.com/fundamentals-of-usb-audio/

To prove the theory, here's a battery of tests against various USB cables that show that they are identical unless your DAC is flawed with respect to being in spec for USB audio (in that case, shorter cables work better): https://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html

 

[Rioblast]

I've done some reading on this recently after Lachlan from Passion for Sound raved about a digital cable. The summary is that digital cables cannot make a difference in sound quality (unless they are defective and you hear no sound). That is a black and white statement with a definitive answer that can be proven with science. Digital cables do not carry audio signals and interference doesn't suddenly change the 1s and 0s to affect sound positively or negatively. It is impossible for interference to change sound quality since there is no sound traveling down a USB cable. Instead, errors are discovered, packets resent, and bit-perfect data is received. USB is also not sent in real-time as you may read from audiophiles. It's correct to assume the data is always perfect unless you discover a defect. A free USB cable from Burson performs 100% identical to a $1,000 cable. That's the reason the Internet exists -- digital data is sent and received perfectly every time, trillions of times a second.

Here's a discussion of how USB audio works from the man who programmed the DAC in the Composer: https://www.edn.com/fundamentals-of-usb-audio/

To prove the theory, here's a battery of tests against various USB cables that show that they are identical unless your DAC is flawed with respect to being in spec for USB audio (in that case, shorter cables work better): https://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html

I don't believe that was Lachlan's conclusion or do you mean his assessment was wrong?

 

[Rioblast]

I've used Tidals "exclusive mode" for the Burson XMOS USB on my Windows 10 laptop and I could see depending on the music that different bitrates are used, usually between 44k and 96k PCM. When I unbox the exclusive mode it jumps up to 384k. Why is that and what does it mean?

 

[flitcroft]

I don't believe that was Lachlan's conclusion or do you mean his assessment was wrong?

I could have worded my post better. Yes, he is completely wrong. I asked him some questions in the comments and his responses have no basis in how digital audio works. The point is that digital cables do not matter: they work or they do not work but cannot change sound.

 

[Sam Spade]

Yes, he is completely wrong. I asked him some questions in the comments and his responses have no basis in how digital audio works. the point is that digital cables do not matter: they work or they do not work but cannot change sound.

I think that you are mostly correct about digital signals and cables flitcroft. And what I'm about to say is in no way a justification for super expensive digital cables.

But if a cable runs through a super noisy environment electronically, it is possible that interference could smear or damage a digital signal. But I'm talking like gross interference, like the idea of a massive scratch on a CD. or a loose connection. Something that obliterates the 0s and 1s intermittently.

 

[Rioblast]

I could have worded my post better. Yes, he is completely wrong. I asked him some questions in the comments and his responses have no basis in how digital audio works. The point is that digital cables do not matter: they work or they do not work but cannot change sound.

Thank you for straightening that out. In that case, the review was merely an ad for the manufactures usb-cable. I have otherwise enjoyed Lachlan's reviews.

 

[ishmaelk]

When I was wondering if it was time to admit cables made a difference, I was being a bit ironic. Sort of.
Nothing in my experience has ever proven that digital cables made a difference in sound, except for some with virtually no shielding that carried a lot of interference.
Since I wrote my post, I've done a lot of testing on the imac I use to play digital files.
I tried playing the same files for the A/B testing with iTunes instead of Audirvana, and I seemed to notice less of a difference, if any, between coax and usb. But I wasn't sure, and when I did these last few tests I had no one to ask to change the inputs so that I didn't know what was playing.
I'll run some more tests, but I still think there's a difference. The coax coming from a Yamaha BD-681 that I use as transport sounds so rich, detailed, incredibly engaging. The usb just sounds right, but not as good.
Well, maybe I don't make any sense.
I wanted to ask here if anyone had had a similar experience.

 

[Sam Spade]

I love Lachlan's reviews and i'd much rather read a review than watch a video. But he's not right all the time. That's why ASR is useful, and http://archimago.blogspot.com/ and ken rockwell https://kenrockwell.com/audio/headphone-reviews.htm and others that do measurements as well.