[Oedipus Rex]

Hi,

There have been lots of talk about burning in not only phones but also amps (and the real extreme folks burn in even their power cables..) , and I have also "heard" distinct differences during burning in of several phones. But now I started thinking whether this whole phenomena is just part of a process where your brain adapts itself to the sound signature of the new gear. The neural pathways/networks responsible for recognizing patterns are very adaptive.

I started thinking about this when I got myself a MarkL modded Denon d5000 to replace a 30€ Sennheiser HD 202, and initially I preferred the Sennheiser more.. After a few days my perceptions are changing and I like denon more and more. I belief that after listening to 3 Sennheisers extensively, I got my brain trained on the Sennheiser sound and it took some time to grow new networks to appreciate the denons.

I'm third owner of this D5000 so I doubt there is any "normal" burn in goin on. .. and it makes me wonder whether the burn in effect I have noticed with new phones is also due to the same psychological effect. If I ever get a lots of money, I'll buy 2 same type of HQ phones, burn in the other with my ears, and see if the other pair sounds burned in also after I have my brain tuned to the, say, grado sound.

 

[DannnySavage11]

Well I think the the burn in process actually happens. I own a set beyer dynamic DT 770 Pro 80's. I'm sure you must of heard other people talk about these can's and I'm sure alot of the time people will have said how much bass these headphones can have.

Now these headphones are the first "propper" headphones I have ever owned so I had no real preconcevied ideas on how a good set of headphones should sound. So I put the headphones on and play a track and I really notice how much these cans bring out the bass in music. So after listening to them for about an hour I decide to play some pink noise through them to see what happens (bearing in mind that this is the first time I have ever done the burn in process).

So I leave the pink noise playing overnight for about 10-11 hours. I come back to the headphones and put them on again and play the same track that i listened to just before I started to play the pink noise. What a differnce that 10-11 hours of pink noise made!! The bass had calmed down and the mids and highs had alot more detail then before.

So really my point is, my brain couldn't of adjusted to the sound of the headphone in just one hour because I noticed such a big change in the way the headphone sounded after I played the pink noise.

So this experience may not exactly prove your opinion to be wrong but it may suggest that your theory will just remain, well, a theory.

 

[haloxt]

And the anti-burn-in people will respond that you only imagine it improved after pink noise because you had preconceived ideas of what pink noise might do.

They you respond you don't think it's likely and that it'd be easy to test.

Then they'll respond that nobody has proven it by dbt and you are unscientific.

Then you respond they should try it themselves.

Then they respond that they don't have to there's no measurements behind it.

Then you respond first hand experience is best.

Then they respond that humans are subject to placebo.

Gg.

 

[odigg]

This is going to turn into a debate. I've no real interest in a debate so if this is my only post that is why. I'll just state my opinion and leave it at that.

There are a number of people who do not believe in eqiupment burn-in. I am one of them. There are also a number of people who are not sure about burn in. Both groups are under-represented on this board or prefer to keep silent because so many people are talking about burning in everything.

As for the idea that you cannot adjust in one hour, I'm not sure I agree. When you listen to a brand new headphone you start forming an opinion of how it sounds. You start forming expectations. You also have expectation based on reviews. Then if you put the headphone away your expectations and experiences are still working with each other, even when you sleep. Your brain is still working everything out.

A long time ago I got the Denon D5000. The first time I listened to it I thought there was too much bass. Then I put the headphone away, got a good nights sleep, and the next day when I listened the bass sounded a lot better and well controlled.

The headphone had just sat on my desk. It was not attached to anything and no music was playing through it.

The brain is incredible, capable of adapting to things much greater than a change in headphones and the brain also creates the reality we see.

 

[Speederlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif And the anti-burn-in people will respond that you only imagine it improved after pink noise because you had preconceived ideas of what pink noise might do. They you respond you don't think it's likely and that it'd be easy to test. Then they'll respond that nobody has proven it by dbt and you are unscientific. Then you respond they should try it themselves. Then they respond that they don't have to there's no measurements behind it. Then you respond first hand experience is best. Then they respond that humans are subject to placebo. Gg.

The op provided a decent explanation of why people could perceive "burn-in" the way they do without there being any real change to the sound characteristics of the equipment.. Any comment on the topic of the thread?

 

[haloxt]

Don't confuse theory with explanation.

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif And the anti-burn-in people will respond that you only imagine it improved after pink noise because you had preconceived ideas of what pink noise might do. They you respond you don't think it's likely and that it'd be easy to test. Then they'll respond that nobody has proven it by dbt and you are unscientific. Then you respond they should try it themselves. Then they respond that they don't have to there's no measurements behind it. Then you respond first hand experience is best. Then they respond that humans are subject to placebo. Gg.

THANK YOU SO MUCH

I much prefer reading it annotated, than reading 5 pages only to discover it fits this exact same pattern

 

[Speederlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't confuse theory with explanation.

Theories explain things. They may or may not be true. He provided an explanation/theory. It may or may not be the case, but it's a fairly decent theory/explanation that covers the phenomenon. So again, any comment on the topic of the thread, namely his potential explanation?

 

[haloxt]

No, not really.

 

[Oedipus Rex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif And the anti-burn-in people will respond that you only imagine it improved after pink noise because you had preconceived ideas of what pink noise might do.

No, I'm not talking about the placebo effect here. I'm telling that you are actually hearing different things, perhaps even things that you could not hear before, just that the change did not happen in the headphone but in your head.

Quote:

So really my point is, my brain couldn't of adjusted to the sound of the headphone in just one hour because I noticed such a big change in the way the headphone sounded after I played the pink noise.

You would be surprised how much the brain can adapt. If you wear goggles that turn everything around (so you see everything upside down) for a few days, your brain flips the image around and then you see everything normally with the goggles on.. but if you then take the goggles off, everything is upside down without any goggles! Also, sleep does wonders to your brain. If I face a tough math problem or programming task, I usually just postpone it till tomorrow, and after a good night's sleep the problem often seems trivial.

Of course this is just a theory, but, as the old saying goes, there are no scientific facts, only theories.. if you want the Truth you have to turn to metaphysics.. When you only have competing theories, the usual practice in the western world has been to pick out the simplest explanation (the Occam's razor). I personally prefer beauty as a much better criterion than simplicity (or even consistency) but thats just my postnihilistic fancy, a self-justified act of moronisy. But do excuse me, I always get so poetic after bumping iron.

 

[haloxt]

Whenever the brain causes an effect and then misattributes that effect to the wrong cause, that is placebo. If the brain adapts and the person misattributes it to something other than the brain adapting, then it is placebo. It's easy to test though, just get two pairs of headphones people say truly go through burn-in and find out (yes I know I just started the evil snowball of bicker-fi).

 

[whaleyboy]

I was just thinking about this very topic.

My 2c.

I just purchased a set of speakers for my living room system (not cans, floor standing speakers). I borrowed a set of demo speakers from the shop and used them for about a week. I assume that the demo speakers were pretty well used.

When I got my new pair of speakers I put them into the same room, in the same spot (I had marked the spot), used the same exact system components, cables and source.

I could immediately hear a difference. There was no question. My wife, who has no position on burn in (I tried to explain it but she isn't interested) could tell immediately as well.

Of course the speakers (despite being the same model etc.) could have had radically different characteristics. After a few hours they seemed to "loosen up" or burn in or whatever.

My personal policy has always been to just use the stuff and enjoy it as it matures or burns in. I kind of like hearing the differences. I have noticed a much larger difference with transducers (cans, speakers) than I have with electronics.

I also believe that I personally get more used to a particular sound so my brain habituation probably meets the component burn in at some point in the middle.

Whatever you believe have fun playing with your toys!

 

[Uncle Erik]

How many of you wear glasses?

When you get a new prescription and/or a new pair of glasses, do you notice that things are "off" for the first few days? After that, you adjust and everything starts to look normal.

So, did your glasses "burn in" or did your brain rewire itself to conform what the eyes are reporting to what it expects to see?

No doubt the same thing happens in audio. Your brain reworks signals to conform to what it expects.

If you're expecting a "change" from a magickal cable or "burn in," then you will probably get one whether or not it happens in the real world. That's the only reasonable explanation for why believers "hear" something, skeptics don't, the failure to hear differences in any blinded test, and the inability for test tools to measure a difference. It also allows for the sincerity of the believers - I think they genuinely hear a difference. But only people who believe get to hear it and only when they know what they're listening to.

 

[b0dhi]

The brain does adapt to a changing long term sound spectrum. This is why a DT-770 will sound bloated/too bassy if you're coming from listening to a K701 long term but sound fine if you're coming from a DX1000.

I don't doubt that what you heard is due to that. Note also that I still think real, mechanical break-in occurs as well, just not in this case.

 

[BigTony]

you could consider the following:
Spend $500 on a new pair of cans,
But they don't slay you when you try them out, you prefer your old $30 cans,
Try burn-in ... your head says 'these cans will sound better after 200 hours burn in'
200 hours later - wow - these are great!

In my experience, my perception of the sound of cans and amps changes over time (and malt).