Burn-in. Real or not?
Dec 21, 2011 at 6:28 PM Post #17 of 228
After people get experience with earphones, then people understand burn-in :wink:

Take a look at the IE8's and ask any owner if they have or haven't improved since they first got them out the box.
Guarantee you over 95% will say they improved.
 
Dec 21, 2011 at 6:30 PM Post #18 of 228


Quote:
I'm not following. Where's the error in my logic? Its phrased a little weird, I was groggy but I was stating that burn in is real. BurnIn is simply mechanical parts getting older. 



I was agreeing with you :p  Electronics wear and change over time, become more or less efficient in the transfer of electricity, but there are still some who disbelieve the existence of burn in.  That is the same as someone telling me 1+1 does not equal 2  <3
 
Dec 21, 2011 at 7:05 PM Post #21 of 228
Burn-in does exist, definitely.
 
- Many dynamic driver manufacturers actually recommend x hours of burn in to get the driver to the driver freely moving and perform to manufacturer specifications. I have had communications with manufacturers on this matter and they tell me that as the manufacturer, they recommend burn in.
 
- My personal experience backs this up. Each time I get a dynamic driver IEM, the changes are very notable over the first 25 hours, after that, it's more subtle. This makes sense as the majority of loosening of the driver would happen in around 20 hours, after that it would continue to loosen up and that is where the subtle change comes into it.
 
- It's not psychological because I have tested this too. e.g. if I am listening to a new DD IEM and the bass is bloated and really big and not defined and I suddenly change to an armature IEM, the "psychological" aspect should carry over and the armature IEM should have more bass, i.e. my brain would carry over the perception of the bloated DD to the armature IEM. This has never been the case, the armature sounds exactly the same as it always has.
 
Dec 21, 2011 at 7:08 PM Post #22 of 228


Quote:
I'll go against the grain and say I don't believe in burn-in. Don't shoot me ... you can believe what you like, but I'll keep believing what I do until something significant changes my opinion.
 
If research, with proper blind tests, ever shows a statiscally signficant proporation of listeners can tell the difference between new or "burnt in" earphones I'll happily change my stance but no individual personal testimony will change my opinion.
 
One thing that intrigues me though is that I've never known anyone mention that their earphones have started to "burn out" ... it appears that "burn in" only goes in one direction.



I'm not going to shoot you, don't worry. 
 
I do however want to make a few statements about your post, the first one deals with the "one individual testimony"...  What if 20 people told you that they have heard the effects of burn in, and they all followed the same pattern?  How about 30?  40?  50?  You've probably heard over 50 people on these forums alone that have stated and plotted out burn in.  They all did it on an individual basis, but it's still 50 people.  It may not be all at once, but it still is 50+ people.  Just keep that one in mind...  Now if you go outside these forums...  Yeah...
 
As for the burn out statements.  It's true, we don't ever hear about headphones burning out.  Why don't they burn out?  Well here's the short explanation.  First, we have to assume that the following statement is true: "objects with more moving parts will be quicker to break".  Although we can't prove this empirically, we can prove this through observations made daily.  A HHD will break before an SSD ever will, simply because it has moving parts.  Now, lets look at a car, more importantly, it's transmission.  A cars transmission has lots of moving parts.  And a cars transmission can take quite a while to burn out.  Actually, my '93 Dodge Caravan's transmission lasted almost 18 years before the tranny dropped.  Now a headphone is on a much smaller scale with less moving parts.  On top of that, we don't push it as much, and it normally isn't used as extensively, or with as much stress, as a transmission will.  So if a transmission can last 18 years, the headphones should be able to theoretically last just as long, if not longer. 
 
There is a reason why we don't read about headphone burn out, we are more likely to damage other parts of the headphones, or even replace it before they burn it out.
 
Dec 21, 2011 at 7:45 PM Post #23 of 228
I more believe in brain burn in rather than physical burn in
 
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 12:16 AM Post #25 of 228
I'm curious as to the source of the term "burn in" since it seems like a bit of a misnomer to me.  Isn't what's being described really a break in period?
 
I buy into it even though I've never really noticed it but my earphones are limited to relatively low end things compared to most here.  If my SE215s have broken in then I didn't notice.  But haven't there been measured tests of full size speakers showing a discernable change after a certain period of time?  If speakers can change their signature then earphones could too.  The basic technology of the dynamic driver is similar.
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 12:29 AM Post #26 of 228


Quote:
Burn-in does exist, definitely.
 
- Many dynamic driver manufacturers actually recommend x hours of burn in to get the driver to the driver freely moving

I think it is a marketing trick.  You are not entirely satisfied with the product. The vendor knows that any delay will make a return from you less likely.
 
Why would anyone buy a product that is not ready for use out-of-the-box?  Best to buy headphones with free moving drivers.
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 2:53 AM Post #27 of 228


Quote:
I think it is a marketing trick.  You are not entirely satisfied with the product. The vendor knows that any delay will make a return from you less likely.
 
Why would anyone buy a product that is not ready for use out-of-the-box?  Best to buy headphones with free moving drivers.



Just like cars break in, drivers need to too.  Why do you buy a product that's not ready for use out-of-the-box?  So you know it's new and never been used.  Would you buy a "new" car if it had 30k miles on it from "break in" so it'd be ready to go out of the dealer...  I sure wouldn't.  Same thing applies to headphones.  It's part of the agreement that you are buying a new product, not a broken in product.  It definitely isn't a marketing trick. 
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 2:59 AM Post #28 of 228


Quote:
I more believe in brain burn in rather than physical burn in
 



Your theory doubts one thing, frequency graphs that have been shown break in...  I already may my comments on doubt...  Does your brain burn in?  Most likely, how long does it take?  That's different for everyone (depends on sensitivity and time it takes to acoustically decay to the new sound)...  That doesn't explain why I can say over the first 10 hours, the bass really settled down (when I listened to them for a total of 1 hour...) when another can say yes, 10 hours bass goes down (he on the other hand listened to 5 of those hours)...  Although listening time does differ, the thing that remains the same is the 10 hours for bass to settle down. 
 
Is there psychological burn in, I'm not going to doubt it...  I'm am going to say that if it was only psychological, all headphones would take the same amount of time to "burn in" (since it would be dependant on a person's decay period to the new sound).  However, we see that everyone has the same time frames for certain things to happen (same decay period?  No way, everyone's ears and brains are different), on top of that, each headphone takes a different amount of time to burn in. 
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 3:19 AM Post #29 of 228
Imho, both mechanical parts and electronics (including wires and connectors) require burn in process.
 
I do not agree that an equipment that sounds awful before burn-in will sound good after burn-in.
 
Mechanically, dynamic drivers require longer burn-in time than BA.
 
I think 'break in' a new car is a little different. A car has a lot of physical contact (frictional wear due to abrasion). It needs time to settle down.
 
 
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 3:27 AM Post #30 of 228
i believe in burn/break in. Dynamic drivers tend to mellow out and smooth out most of the time.
 

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