[swmtnbiker]

Here's some more blood to throw in the water - why is it that burn-in ALWAYS results in a perceived improvement in sound quality?

 

[Redo]

There's more ways to test than just pink noise and a rigged mic (very rigged in this case). I thought FR charts were usually done with sweeps anyhow, not pink noise.

 

[Zombie_X]

As for me I don't belive in burn it at all, period. It's all psychoacoustics IMO.

I'll side with IpodPJ and say I do hear differences with cables though, but they will never improve.

 

[Seamaster]

No, not again! Headphone do need burn-in. Even my wife could hear the difference!

 

[UNHchabo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's some more blood to throw in the water - why is it that burn-in ALWAYS results in a perceived improvement in sound quality?

As I said, I subscribe to the idea that burn-in is the mechanical components loosening up, so here's my reasoning:
When you first get a headphone, the headphone driver will need loosening up into the state it'll eventually reach; until then any movements the driver makes will be rigid and unfluid, not unlike if I woke you up with an air horn at 5AM and made you run an obstacle course right away.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Does anyone actually have evidence for this?

I do! I do!
It's for burn-in.

Here is evidence of measured documented speaker burn-in

How the Audax AP100Z0 loudspeaker drivers were broken-in and the T/S parameters measured.

Actual measured t/s data of pre and post break-in of the Audax AP100Z0 loudspeaker drivers. Shown over 0, 30, 50 and 70 hours.

Another set of speaker driver:

Peerless XLS10 10" Subwoofer (830452) and Passive Radiator (830481)

Source stolen from:

Burn in - Hydrogenaudio Forums

Many more links in that website.

Glossary of what the terms that are measured are:

MTX Mobile Audio - Education

Dynamic drivers, whether it be in speakers, in-ears or headphones are mechanical parts. A promo picture of the JVC FX500 in-ears shows this quite well:

Perceiving it is one thing, having the science to back it up is another. I perceive it (there is greater differences with burn-in with some earphone/ headphones more than others) and I have the science to back it up.
This is for dynamic transducer based systems of course.
The greatest amount of difference I've found is within the first 20 Hours for in-ears and first 50 Hours or so for headphones.

 

[HeyItsBattleKid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjinh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quote: Originally Posted by dpippel /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

[swmtnbiker]

This thread is so predictable, it's like clockwork.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is so predictable, it's like clockwork.

Only I got scientific evidence which is usually absent from these threads

I prefer that science does the talking for me.

hydrogenaudio.org and audioholics.com are fantastic websites to learn about acoustic science.
Head-fi's Sound Science forum is getting there but not quite to the level that these two websites are.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rip N' Burn /img/forum/go_quote.gif provide some proof about brain burn-in as well!

I don't know if you meant that as a joke or not, but I have a friend (a serious, knowledgeable audiophile) who says something similar, in all seriousness. His answer is that it's not the component that changes, but rather it's the perception of the sound that changes. In other words, you become accustomed to the sound and begin to appreciate it. The changes are in your brain -- in your perception of the sound -- rather than in the sound itself.

I have no opinion either way. But it's an interesting argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNHchabo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't heard burn-in on headphones yet, but even just with the theory of burn-in, frequency response is about the least likely measure of sound quality to change over time with the same headphone. Ham Sandwich has it -- if burn-in is caused by the mechanical parts of a headphone driver loosening up, then the most likely aspect of the sound to change is the timing of the sounds: the attack, the sustain, and so on.

Now that's an interesting point. If you've ever messed with an analog synth, by tweaking the knobs that control the envelope perameters (Attack, Sustain, Decay, Release), you know that these parameters have an obvious, perceptible impact on sound. ASDR has nothing to do with freq response, so maybe changes in envelope can produce real changes in sound without affecting frequency response. Obviously, a frequency response graph would not reflect this change.

Again, I don't know. But it's a very interesting idea...

P.S. Let's keep this thread respectful. There's nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas, even if the idea has been thoroughly discussed in the past.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Only I got scientific evidence which is usually absent from these threads

Yep, I guess that it's been hiding in plain sight all these years.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif P.S. Let's keep this thread respectful. There's nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas, even if the idea has been thoroughly discussed in the past.

MORE than thoroughly discussed.

 

[Zombie_X]

Sure the driver will loosen up over extended use, but I can't tell a difference in sound. The only phone I noticed a difference with was the K702, where the treble got a little smoother (800 hours or so).

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know if you meant that as a joke or not, but I have a friend (a serious, knowledgeable audiophile) who says something similar, in all seriousness. His answer is that it's not the component that changes, but rather it's the perception of the sound that changes. In other words, you become accustomed to the sound and begin to appreciate it. The changes are in your brain -- in your perception of the sound -- rather than in the sound itself. I have no opinion either way. But it's an interesting argument.

I'ts basic psychoacoustics. The phenomenon is called 'accommodation'.
However my post above is not influenced by that as it's measure with equipment, which takes out any psychological factors such as accommodation.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel /img/forum/go_quote.gif MORE than thoroughly discussed.

So I guess we should give up discussions of the meaning of life? That's gonna put a lot of clergymen/philopophers/bartenders out of business. Now that would be a shame.