burn in - facts !!
Jan 29, 2008 at 4:15 AM Post #16 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rednamalas1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My A900s didn't change much after 900+ hours of burn in, while K701s have dramatic effects.


is there a possibilty that a900 could be burn in at the factory and the k701 not ? the technology behind the a900 and the k701 is not that much different i guess ( i am not a headphones expert) so it should have roughly the same behaviour.
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 4:33 AM Post #17 of 117
Jan 29, 2008 at 5:44 AM Post #18 of 117
We do have a sticky on this issue. Now read this:
Quote:

Is burn in actually real?

The idea of burn in has always been controversial. Some people say that there is evidence that proves it while others say that there is evidence to disprove it. Some consider the phenomenon to be purely psychological conditioning while others insist upon physical changes to the drivers, and some agree upon a combination of the two. You are free to be a believer, and you are free to be a skeptic. Whether or not you believe in it and the position you take on the subject is a choice that you should make for yourself.


Follow by this:
Quote:

Is there anything else that I should know?

Burn in has been discussed at length over the years of Head-Fi. Any question you have concerning burn in has likely been asked numerous times, and by using the search function and reading through previous threads, you will almost surely find answers and opinions. This FAQ has been created to limit the number of redundant threads posted by newcomers or especially curious existing members of the Head-Fi community asking the same questions that have been asked in the past. The subject of burn in is not especially complicated or involved, nor is it something to have great concern about, nor is it an exact science. Opinions, methods, and results vary from person to person, headphone to headphone, system to system.


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hea...urn-faq-56744/
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 6:06 AM Post #21 of 117
I personally think burn-in is just a period of usage and our ears are gradually readjusting to their sound.

Then again, that's just me and it's different for everyone!
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 6:32 AM Post #22 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by spinali /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Headphone Break-In: Facts and Fiction


from this link i see an intersting hypothesis : "A second theory has to do with a headphone's soft foam gradually conforming to the shape of one's head." - especially for closed headphones where the enclosure is very important to sound.

and stop saying "you can believe it or not it is up to you" - the earth is not flat and there is no monster in the loch ness - even the placebo effect is scientifically demonstated by the repeatability of the expriment.
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 6:38 AM Post #23 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by amanieux /img/forum/go_quote.gif
and stop saying "you can believe it or not it is up to you" - the earth is not flat and there is no monster in the loch ness - even the placebo effect is scientifically demonstated by the repeatability of the expriment.


The age old argument. As far as I know, cells don't exist because I haven't seen things at microscopic detail with my naked eye. The earth isn't round because I haven't walked across the entire planet in a straight line on foot.

See where I'm getting at? If somebody truly doesn't hear the burn-in, and they don't believe it, that's fine. "You can believe it or not it is up to you"
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 6:51 AM Post #24 of 117
To me headphone burn is real. It varies from headphone to headphone. My Grado GS1000s were pretty horrible in some aspects straight out of the box. e.g. the sibilance was pretty awful. After 100 hours this had pretty much gone. After 200 hours it was gone. They now sound great with almost any music genre.

The other end of the equation is my AT ATH-W5000s. These were pretty much as is straight of the box, with burn in not really required. These have about 150 hours on them now. Maybe there will be changes further down the track, but at present I cannot fault them.

cheers
Simon
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 7:45 AM Post #25 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If somebody truly doesn't hear the burn-in, and they don't believe it, that's fine. "You can believe it or not it is up to you"


no i disagree, things are simple when you look at facts. why can't we just record the sound from a headphone like the k701 that is supposedly sensible to it before and after burn in to conclude this matter once for all ?
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 8:08 AM Post #26 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by amanieux /img/forum/go_quote.gif
is there a possibilty that a900 could be burn in at the factory and the k701 not ? the technology behind the a900 and the k701 is not that much different i guess ( i am not a headphones expert) so it should have roughly the same behaviour.


Stiffness and conductivity and all sorts of things are material properties.
The two headphones may work on similar principles but could be made from completely different materials or may even work at different scales (atomic-scale headphones maybe).
And yes, although things may work on similar (or the same) principles, the specific design or usage conditions may mean material properties are abused or exposed in different ways. (you can karate chop a plank of wood in two but try doing that to a tree a metre in diameter)

Age and condition also dramatically affect some material properties, FWIW.

Mass-produced consumer-level goods are just that. Anything that hurts the low-cost mass-production idea and doesn't add value is generally a waste of time/effort/money/price-advantage.
There are good reasons for me saying that it is very unlikely they pre-burn in drivers for 500 hours in a factory. Maybe you would like to pay for this feature? I'd sell to you :p I like new opportunities for profit.

If you want facts send an email to audio-technica and ask them.
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 8:13 AM Post #27 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by amanieux /img/forum/go_quote.gif
no i disagree, things are simple when you look at facts. why can't we just record the sound from a headphone like the k701 that is supposedly sensible to it before and after burn in to conclude this matter once for all ?


A notable veteran HFer has made a suggestion that our ears may pick out some things that machines can't interpret, and my mind is open to that.
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 8:24 AM Post #28 of 117
Quote:

Originally Posted by carlineng /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sounds like a job for MythBusters...


I would totally watch that episode
tongue.gif
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 8:30 AM Post #29 of 117
As my old professor once told me, 'Fact' is only a convenient way of saying 'here is what most of us believe in.' Things are constantly being proved and unproved all the time. Even scientific proven 'fact' can turn out to be fake but still attracts millions of believers.

You can record the before and after sound of a K701, but there will be those who do hear the difference, and there will be those who don't. You can probably measure the smallest fraction of the difference b/w the before and after sound on a machine, but it certainly doesn't mean you ear will hear the difference, nor does it mean others will/can hear any difference. After all, how can anyone objectively measure the sound quality* of an headphone, which basically is a subjective construct to begin with?

We all have different sensitivity of hearing, and we all hear our world slightly different from another person. While you might be able to pickup a -0.5dB over 16Khz and claims that burn in exists, I probably won't hear any change on that range. While you can claims the effect is real as showed on measurement, I could just as well argue that the small change mean nothing to me and burn in is a fake.

In the end, there is no absolute 'fact' even in the world of science. In fact, a good scientist should always question the fact, as this has happened more than you can imagine: the same data can be interpreted differently by two schools of scientists. The same professor also once said, data don't tell us the fact, we are the one that interpreted the 'fact' based on what we believe those data has shown us.


*as the goal of burn in is basically trying to change the SQ of headphone.
 
Jan 29, 2008 at 10:19 AM Post #30 of 117
Who cares if burn-in actually exists? Either it's my headphones being burned in, or it's my brain. As long as the effect is there and it sounds good to my ears, I couldn't care less if I'm fooling myself.

For what it's worth, though, I definitely believe in burn-in. My Ultrasone PROline 650s were extremely bass heavy at first, to a point where I just wasn't going to get along with them. I noticed after a few days that they were sounding a lot more balanced, and now I love them.
 

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