Building a couple of Athlon64 based XPC type PC's, need advice!

[seeberg]

(Note for moderators: If this thread is unsuitable in its location, please move it to a proper place, thanks)

This is the first time I've attempted doing this, and it wasn't until asking devwild at the 3/26 Portland meet about building these small formfactor barebones PC's piece by piece that I got a fire under my bum to do it myself, and also build another for a friend of mine that is a fan of LAN and WAN(is that the right term- wireless area network?) parties. I showed him what I know about Shuttle's XPC formfactor systems, and since he wants performace, I'd prefer to go with a budget oriented Athlon 64 based setup(the cheapest barebones kits I've seen that work with that processor are socket 754 so far- and socket 754 also seems to have the best price for an Athlon64 processor)
I don't necessarily have an established budget yet- maybe around $700 or so each, but I do have a few requirements:

-onboard optical output(input optional) and other audio, front ports in addition preffered.
-Windows XP based(but ditching certain programs in favor of Firefox, Winamp, etc.)
-multiple USB/firewire ports, front ports in addition preferred.
-10/100 Ethernet port
-1 PCI, 1 AGP slot(will most likely fill with cheaper nVidia 256MB AGP cards, and the PCI section will be reserved for wireless adaptor if need be.)
-Athlon64 processor based(socket 754 if it's the cheapest option)
-RAM within 1-2 GB's
-Dual layer DVD/CD burner
-200+GB hard drive(unsure what size needed to fit inside XPC case)
-front mounted card reader optional.

I'm doing my research as much as I can-newegg seems to have most of what I'm looking for for the right price, and I'll be going to Fry's Electronics this Saturday or Sunday to continue this-, and can use all the advice I can get. If anyone needs extra info about more stuff, please drop me a line. I'd very much appreciate it.

,
Abe

 

[zeyus]

The Shuttles look pretty cool for barebones systems, I think I prefer Intel over AMD anyday (only from several past experiences)

Luke

 

[MrSlacker]

if i were you, i'd go with socket 939. 754 is dieing slowly. also may be try and order online to save some money. do you want PCI-E or AGP?

 

[zeyus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlacker if i were you, i'd go with socket 939. 754 is dieing slowly. also may be try and order online to save some money. do you want PCI-E or AGP?

If you are using it for gaming, PCI-E is the only way to go, it rocks, those newer GeForce cards are cheap and are a card to be rekoned with. (they compare to the higher models of the GeForce and Radeons quite well)

 

[zeyus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeberg -onboard optical output(input optional) and other audio, front ports in addition preffered. -Windows XP based(but ditching certain programs in favor of Firefox, Winamp, etc.) -multiple USB/firewire ports, front ports in addition preferred. -10/100 Ethernet port -1 PCI, 1 AGP slot(will most likely fill with cheaper nVidia 256MB AGP cards, and the PCI section will be reserved for wireless adaptor if need be.) -Athlon64 processor based(socket 754 if it's the cheapest option) -RAM within 1-2 GB's -Dual layer DVD/CD burner -200+GB hard drive(unsure what size needed to fit inside XPC case) -front mounted card reader optional.

In the shuttle systems you should be able to fit any sized hard drive (the size of GB doesnt increase the physical disc size)

http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BarebonePromos/index.htm
[LINK=http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SB95P V2.asp]SB95P V2[/LINK]


Luke

 

[lini]

seeberg: I'd recommend to not only check the Shuttle range, but the Biostar models, too. The iDEQ 330P (http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/b...30p/index.php3) is quite a nice one. Avoid the Shuttle ST20G5, if you need high USB 2.0 performance.

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[seeberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlacker if i were you, i'd go with socket 939. 754 is dieing slowly. also may be try and order online to save some money. do you want PCI-E or AGP?

I'll be going with AGP- I haven't seen any systems within my ranges that use PCI-E. Also, compact XPC systems that use Socket 939 are more expensive than I'd like to pay, and the processors are as well, for what may only be a marginal improvement over the already killer performance of a standard Athlon 64 processor.
Quote:

Originally Posted by lini seeberg: I'd recommend to not only check the Shuttle range, but the Biostar models, too. The iDEQ 330P (http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/b...30p/index.php3) is quite a nice one. Avoid the Shuttle ST20G5, if you need high USB 2.0 performance. Greetings from Hannover! Manfred / lini

I actually checked out Biostar on newegg.com, and yeah they have some interesting stuff. I was thinking of going for a 210P, it's $240 over there.

Well, I did some searching on newegg last night, and I'm continuing tonight, here's what I found so far:
-LITE-ON Dual Layer DVD burner, $48
-Athlon 64 processor (2800/1.8ghz speed with 1.6ghz bus), $121
-Maxtor 200GB 3.5" hard drive with 16mb cache, $107
-GeIL PC3200 184-pin DDR 400 SDRAM with head spreading shroud, 1GB $80
-Biostar iDEQ 210P as mentioned above, it meets practically every requirement so far.
(the following are my cheapest choices for AGP cards with nVidia cores, s-video and DVI equipped-I'm open to ATi options, but have no idea what's good there.)
-eVGA Geforce FX5500 256MB 128-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card, $66
-CHAINTECH Geforce FX5200 256MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card, $66

I'm open to any suggestions, and of course I'd like to stretch my dollar as far as I can. So far, assuming I can get all the items listed above to work properly, I'll be spending just under $700, shipping included.

Keep that advice coming!

 

[akwok]

I would suggest an [size=large]Antec Aria [/size]and an MSI RS480M2-IL, fitted with an Athlon64 3000+ S939, a 6600 GT, a Seagate/Samsung 200gb, 2x512mb DDR400 $40 Samsung. The crucial part to silence: A Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu fits PERFECTLY in the Antec Aria.

I have a Shuttle myself, and I had to modify it insanely to get it to be quiet enough for my standards (< 24dB). Drilling, cutting, and custom machined parts for silence, while the Antec Aria is pretty at stock as it has a 120mm self regulating PSU. I've built 2 systems with the Aria and they have been flawless.

Here's a picture of the Aria :

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeberg I'll be going with AGP- I haven't seen any systems within my ranges that use PCI-E. Also, compact XPC systems that use Socket 939 are more expensive than I'd like to pay, and the processors are as well, for what may only be a marginal improvement over the already killer performance of a standard Athlon 64 processor. I actually checked out Biostar on newegg.com, and yeah they have some interesting stuff. I was thinking of going for a 210P, it's $240 over there. Well, I did some searching on newegg last night, and I'm continuing tonight, here's what I found so far: -LITE-ON Dual Layer DVD burner, $48 -Athlon 64 processor (2800/1.8ghz speed with 1.6ghz bus), $121 -Maxtor 200GB 3.5" hard drive with 16mb cache, $107 -GeIL PC3200 184-pin DDR 400 SDRAM with head spreading shroud, 1GB $80 -Biostar iDEQ 210P as mentioned above, it meets practically every requirement so far. (the following are my cheapest choices for AGP cards with nVidia cores, s-video and DVI equipped-I'm open to ATi options, but have no idea what's good there.) -eVGA Geforce FX5500 256MB 128-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card, $66 -CHAINTECH Geforce FX5200 256MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card, $66 I'm open to any suggestions, and of course I'd like to stretch my dollar as far as I can. So far, assuming I can get all the items listed above to work properly, I'll be spending just under $700, shipping included. Keep that advice coming!

If this rig is for LANs, do NOT get the FX5500/FX5200. You will be dying in frags due to insane lag! I suggest you get a GeForce 6600/6800 GT if you're going PCI-e, if not then an ATi X800 XL AGP.

I've had some issues with the Biostars, mainly overheating and noise. You might want to bump the processor to a 3000+, as it's not that big a price difference. The Maxtor is a great choice, it's very fast but also a bit noisy. However, you probably aren't going to notice noise in a LAN setting, .

 

[bangraman]

Aria? Not in my experience... Neat little MATX case, but runs too hot as stock and the fan ramps up too quickly, becoming non silent. Having said that, the Shuttles aren't too quiet either as far as the ones I bought go. I gave up on SFF, went desktop case in the end for cool and quiet performance.


Go with 939. The latest Venice core A64's have lower wattage requirements and seem to have refined Q&C performance. I also have problems with memory management on the S754 A64's.


With my experience, as someone else pointed out early in my thread for a PC to rival the Mac Mini, I'd suggest you go for a desktop case or even the full-size HTPC-like cases because you'll get much better cooling. The latest 'flavour of the month' at my ramshackle abode is the Thermaltake Tsunami. I'm thinking about dumping all the Sonatas in favour of this.

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Aria? Not in my experience... Neat little MATX case, but runs too hot as stock and the fan ramps up too quickly, becoming non silent. Having said that, the Shuttles aren't too quiet either as far as the ones I bought go. I gave up on SFF, went desktop case in the end for cool and quiet performance. Go with 939. The latest Venice core A64's have lower wattage requirements and seem to have refined Q&C performance. I also have problems with memory management on the S754 A64's.

If you run a Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu in the Aria, the hot air is expelled horizontally through the side vents and the 120mm doesn't ramp up much or at all.

 

[bangraman]

I did. Perhaps I'm hypercritical but it wasn't quiet enough for me. (And I was using 2.5" drives so even less heat coming out of the system as a whole)


The other problem with the Aria is the front vent placement I think... the Zalman is not THAT quiet even among fans in the same diameter range and the fin design doesn't exactly reduce noise, and if you're in front of the case the noise does come through clearly.

 

[seeberg]

Well, in part to bump the thread, I'll mention that noise is not an issue for me or the buddy of mine I'll be building a similar 'partybox' for. I'm pretty sure heat will be kept to a minimum with both systems, as I doubt he'll overclock his, and I won't even bother with mine- also, assuming the Athlon 64 processor I linked works properly with the setup, it comes with a fan and heatsink, so I believe I'll have that covered for a while. I use mine for emulation and music anyway, nothing too intensive, but it is moreso that my rig likes. I don't really get into PC games, but I will be the first to admit I want a better system than what I've got(pentium 3/750 MHz, 256MB RAM, 15GB+30GB hard drives with almost no space left, Chaintech AV710-YESSS!-, and an eVGA 64mb nVidia GeForce 4 card with tv output). My current PC rig just blows. It's unacceptable, IMO.

,
Abe

 

[akwok]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman I did. Perhaps I'm hypercritical but it wasn't quiet enough for me. (And I was using 2.5" drives so even less heat coming out of the system as a whole) The other problem with the Aria is the front vent placement I think... the Zalman is not THAT quiet even among fans in the same diameter range and the fin design doesn't exactly reduce noise, and if you're in front of the case the noise does come through clearly.

While it is not THAT quiet, it is the quietest without doing significant mods on a SFF. My Shuttle Reflexion was modified extensively to attain silence; two Nexus 80mm's at 7V doing a push-pull over the I.C.E., cutting all the grills out, removing both 40mm fans out of the PSU and machining a custom adapter for a 60mm SilenX fan at 7V, and putting the HD in a 5.25" SilenX Luxurae.

 

[seeberg]

Bumping the thread...
I'll chime in again, and mention I'm also now looking for a suitable flat panel LCD monitor for my friend's setup, within around $300. I'm just looking for whatever's best for the money, as I'm not too keen on what makes a really nice LCD monitor. I'll be using my existing CRT for myself, but if I were upgrading to anything, I'm thinking of something like this.
Of course, I'm not budgeting my build for a new monitor, so it's really just an idea of what I'd like in the future when the really good stuff hits the >300$ mark.

,
Abe