Budget USB DACs
May 6, 2008 at 12:55 PM Post #16 of 37
May 6, 2008 at 1:40 PM Post #17 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1UP /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No such thing as proprietary here. USB-I2S is the best you'd get, but most would convert to S/PDIF.

There wouldn't be any specific jitter-handling just cause it was USB; clock from the PC and onboard PLL would be the most common implementations.


"USB-I2S" can be implemented in great many a ways, from drivers down to basic protocols. Read up on your USB (a)synchronous transmission protocols - the interface is public but drivers and the actual device handling (i.e. programing the microcontroller) have not yet been widely implemented for asynchronous communication and reclocking by local clock (crystal - not PLL) - which is the best way to use it and would minimise jitter. At least not in the consumer world, with the exception of EMU (Creative).

I'm asking if any other company has taken this step (or adopted similar solutions) to be able to use USB - or other modern interfaces - to its full potential in its DACs.
 
May 6, 2008 at 3:47 PM Post #18 of 37
The DIYEDEN SVDAC05 (and I assume the 06 as well) does not have line out. The built-in preamp controls both the headphone and volume output. It appears to be of very good quality to my ears, but cannot be bypassed.
 
May 6, 2008 at 8:57 PM Post #19 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm asking if any other company has taken this step (or adopted similar solutions) to be able to use USB - or other modern interfaces - to its full potential in its DACs.


Well there's Wavelength's Brick and Empirical Off-Ramp, but those are $$$
 
May 7, 2008 at 2:20 AM Post #20 of 37
That's the whole deal
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Now there shouldn't be great difficulty in modifying the output stage, power source etc. (all "discrete" sections, classic technology) of a $400-500 DAC once you have a solid, well designed base - that is a very good DAC chip, performant microcontroller, good programing all around and as clean a digital input as possible. So you end up with a world class dac for (much) less than $1000.

That's what I'm looking for: new DACs which integrate novel technologies and have great potential for "modding" but which haven't yet been brought to their fullest - otherwise they would require top original design and already be high end costing as much as my car ... Practically a platform with new technologies (ideally licensed from / developed by some big company so they come cheaper and have guaranteed quality
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) which may then be tweaked to it's maximum potential. I agree these type of implementation are usually found in the pro audio world, those in hi-fi usually tweak everything to 2x, advertise as 4x and charge it 8x
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Aug 9, 2008 at 3:33 AM Post #23 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm asking if any other company has taken this step (or adopted similar solutions) to be able to use USB - or other modern interfaces - to its full potential in its DACs.


The Benchmark DAC1...
 
Aug 9, 2008 at 5:39 PM Post #24 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKHAVEN /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Benchmark DAC1...


It's over the budget
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Aug 9, 2008 at 8:08 PM Post #25 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by iNiGFx /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's over the budget
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I was just responding to Von SoundCard's call for cutting edge DAC technology, sorry, it wasn't intended to be a thread hijak. For $100, I HIGHLY recommend the Super Pro DAC707SE. I wrote this is the dedicated source forum yesterday:

"I think most of you looking at budget DACs, particularly USB DACs, have come across the Super Pro USB DAC707SE ($109 from www.Audiomagus.com). I noticed it uses the same high quality CS4398 DAC chip (great specs, 24/192, 120dB dynamic and 107 signal-to-noise) and same CS8416 receiver chip as the $400 Headroom Micro DAC. It uses dual LT1364C OP AMPS for analog output, which is where the Micro DAC differs. I also don't know the details of the power setup and regulation (which I'm sure is better on the Micro DAC), but I can't help but wonder if this little guy isn't a real monster at this price? I also wonder if you couldn't replace the wall wart that comes with the Super Pro with an Astrodyne, like Headroom recommends for the Micro DAC? Maybe we'd get even closer with the switching power supply."

I think that is by far the best quality DAC at this price point and a bit higher. Either that, or maybe try HotAudio40s DAC, their on ebay for a fair price. Stats-wise, Super Pro is superior though.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 6:20 AM Post #26 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKHAVEN /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I was just responding to Von SoundCard's call for cutting edge DAC technology, sorry, it wasn't intended to be a thread hijak. For $100, I HIGHLY recommend the Super Pro DAC707SE. I wrote this is the dedicated source forum yesterday:

"I think most of you looking at budget DACs, particularly USB DACs, have come across the Super Pro USB DAC707SE ($109 from www.Audiomagus.com). I noticed it uses the same high quality CS4398 DAC chip (great specs, 24/192, 120dB dynamic and 107 signal-to-noise) and same CS8416 receiver chip as the $400 Headroom Micro DAC. It uses dual LT1364C OP AMPS for analog output, which is where the Micro DAC differs. I also don't know the details of the power setup and regulation (which I'm sure is better on the Micro DAC), but I can't help but wonder if this little guy isn't a real monster at this price? I also wonder if you couldn't replace the wall wart that comes with the Super Pro with an Astrodyne, like Headroom recommends for the Micro DAC? Maybe we'd get even closer with the switching power supply."

I think that is by far the best quality DAC at this price point and a bit higher. Either that, or maybe try HotAudio40s DAC, their on ebay for a fair price. Stats-wise, Super Pro is superior though.


The Super Pro uses the same receiver and DAC chip as the iBasso D1 as well, and sounds closer to the D1 in terms of being a little thinner and colder sounding than my Micro DAC which is a little fuller and richer/refined sounding. The Super Pro also still seems to feed a little more hiss into my amp than the D1 or Micro DAC when connected to my iRiver H140.

The Super Pro DAC707 is slightly better than the DAC built into my Apple TV, but I have only tried the Apple TV with 22 year old Polk SDA speakers on a Yamaha home theater receiver. If I try ATV with higher resolution headphones it may not prove to be that great, and the Super Pro might be much better, I don't know. I have mostly used it as an optical DAC with iRiver H140 and Sony D-303, feeding my HeadFive or DV336i, except once when I tried USB to test that part of the DAC which seems to be on par with the iBasso D1. However, the Micro DAC via USB is wonderful and noticeably better than the D1 or Super Pro.

Nevertheless, with both the Super Pro and Micro DAC here I didn't need to keep the D1 around, and I kept the Super Pro as a decent backup DAC for the Micro DAC at the bedside (like when I have the Micro DAC in the car or packed for a trip). It does come with a spare power cable that you can use to attach to your own battery pack or car battery, or 12-24v regulated power supply - but I have only used the PSU it came with.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 2:15 PM Post #27 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Soundcard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Do any of those DACs - say in the < 500$ region - implement some type of (proprietary ?) transfer protocol over USB to guarantee bit perfect and minimize jitter ?


The Musiland LILO III does. It's more a USB soundcard than a simple DAC. You can find it at PacificValve or on eBay.
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 6:06 PM Post #28 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Super Pro uses the same receiver and DAC chip as the iBasso D1 as well, and sounds closer to the D1 in terms of being a little thinner and colder sounding than my Micro DAC which is a little fuller and richer/refined sounding. The Super Pro also still seems to feed a little more hiss into my amp than the D1 or Micro DAC when connected to my iRiver H140.

The Super Pro DAC707 is slightly better than the DAC built into my Apple TV, but I have only tried the Apple TV with 22 year old Polk SDA speakers on a Yamaha home theater receiver. If I try ATV with higher resolution headphones it may not prove to be that great, and the Super Pro might be much better, I don't know. I have mostly used it as an optical DAC with iRiver H140 and Sony D-303, feeding my HeadFive or DV336i, except once when I tried USB to test that part of the DAC which seems to be on par with the iBasso D1. However, the Micro DAC via USB is wonderful and noticeably better than the D1 or Super Pro.

Nevertheless, with both the Super Pro and Micro DAC here I didn't need to keep the D1 around, and I kept the Super Pro as a decent backup DAC for the Micro DAC at the bedside (like when I have the Micro DAC in the car or packed for a trip). It does come with a spare power cable that you can use to attach to your own battery pack or car battery, or 12-24v regulated power supply - but I have only used the PSU it came with.


How does the Super Pro compare to the emu 0202, or the 0404 for that matter?
 
Aug 10, 2008 at 8:17 PM Post #29 of 37
Quote:

Originally Posted by wacomme /img/forum/go_quote.gif
How does the Super Pro compare to the emu 0202, or the 0404 for that matter?


I've never heard the emu 0202 or 0404.
 
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