[jopi]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch i'd love to buy from the local shop i bought my sugden from but they seem kinda overpriced for me. i can find the p3 online for around $750 and they wanted $875 for it.. but i'm sure they could give me good advice as far as what to buy and stuff. help me damnit!

If you feel confident with the retailers and he's giving you good advice, paying more than on the web is a fair deal, especially with vinyl.
Have you ever setup a turntable? It can take months and the vinyl asylum is full of inmates that sheared off their stylus while dinking around with the cartridge.
It seems that they know you already from previous purchases and I bet they'll let you take two or three different phono stages home for auditioning.

A lot of vinylists use Dynavector or Grado cartridges with the P3. They cost between $300 and $500. If you're willing to spend more, also consider a Benz Microglider. Unfortunately you can't try a cartridge, once you've bought it you're stuck with it.

 

[TimSchirmer]

I'll second what Jopi said. It seriously is better to buy it from a store near you...you get better advice, (and a no-hassle return policy) Usually private hifi shops will go down slightly on the price.

 

[Tuberoller]

You guys are scarin' off the newbees.let's base our comments on facts boys.

fact #1 .Vinyl is not for everyone.While the anaolog sound can reveal the most minute details of a recording the actual vinyl medium does require good equipment and more maintence of that equipment and the vinyl itself.

#2.Vinyl playback systems do not have to be expensive.There are some very good turntables and phono stages available now that sound fantastic and are very inexpensive.

#3.Surface noise is not a fact of vinyl playback.Surface noise is a product of poor record maintence not the analog medium.record cleaning should be part of the listening experience.I never play dirty vinyl and there are cheap enough cleaning products available that there should be no excuse for listening to dirty vinyl.

#4.Difficult,tempermental and frequent turntable set-up is a thing of the past.Even the newer Linn tables can be set-up once and left alone.tweakers will never be happy with a modern vinyl playback system.You can by a new table,unbox it and be listening to the sweet sounds of vinyl 20 minutes later.I set-up tables before I ship them and very rarely do they require any additional tweaking.Guys that spend months seting up a turntable will never be happy with that system,take my word for it cause I was one of those guys.

#5.You do not need a super high definition system to enjoy vinyl playback.If you can't hear the sonic improvements of vinyl in even a moderate mid-fi system,more than likely the cheap,broken or way out of adjustment turntable or dirty records you are using are the culprits.

#6.Vinyl does not always sound better than digital.Sometimes,as much as I hate to admit this,very high quality digital playback on very expensive digital systems can approach and in cases of high quality SACD remasters,even occasionally exceed vinyl playback in the detail department.this does'nt happen often but I have heard it.That said,vinyl is easily the best and least expensive method to obtain stunning detail and accuracy in a playback medium.

#7.Vinyl is better than ever.The tables,phono stages and the general quality of recordings is better than it ever has been.Audiophile recordings of some old favorites and new classics are simply stunning.The detail and beauty of these recordings is unmatched.

#8.Mono is the ****.period.In these days of multichannel playback,how could a person love a single channel playback format?Simple,it sounds incredible.Reserve judgement until you have heard some Billie Hoilday,Nina Simone,Bob Dylan,Elvis or Jerry Butler and the Impressions on a dedicated Mono system.Mindblowing.



the "facts" as seen through the eyes of Tuberoller,admitted vinyl junkie, owner of 17 working turntables,16,570 records,4,455 cds and one set of tin ears.

BTW,I just got a VPI Scout table and this thing is fantastic.it may unseat the MMF-7 as the table to beat under $2,000.00,we'll see.

 

[grinch]

thanks for the great list of info tuberoller! i really am looking forward now..

and i love hearing about the mono system. i doubt i'll ever get a separate system for it, but i would loooove to hear nina simone on mono. she's so amazing. i saw jewel last weekend and as an encore she covered "the other woman" and i SWEAR i was the only person in the whole ampitheater that knew the song or who wrote it.

oh well..

 

[Mcrmouse30]

Quote:

#2.Vinyl playback systems do not have to be expensive.There are some very good turntables and phono stages available now that sound fantastic and are very inexpensive.

What would you suggest in the $350 total range? I am a complete newbie but found a ton of my dads old records the other day. I have the HD-600's btw.

 

[gaineso]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mcrmouse30 What would you suggest in the $350 total range? I am a complete newbie but found a ton of my dads old records the other day. I have the HD-600's btw.

Music Hall MMF2 table seems pretty obvious at that price point.

Somebody else might have a different idea and I don't know much about phono preamps except the Musical Fidelity that I have. With the MMF2, that's about $500 though.

 

[carlo]

tuberoller,

i've been looking to upgrade my analog front end for some time and have been auditioning different tables. i just received a vpi scout/jmw-9 combo (w/ dynavector 10x4) and this, along with the ear 834p, is the most earthbreakingly good sound i've had in my setup. its not many times that i literally sit with mouth agape, but i do here.

compared to the origin live rb250 mated with either the basis 1400 or vpi mkiii (both of which i previously thought were the tables to beat under $2k, although i haven't heard the planar 25 long enough) there's no contest, my modded arcam alpha 9 sounds like a joke next to this thing. ungodly good for the price in every audiophile sense, PRaT that blows the planar 3 away, and dare i say the best value in hifi.

loved the list, especially #8. this is the best time for vinyl, with sundazed releasing incredible mono transfers for under $15, guys like tom waits using high quality recording techniques and so many people still going AAA. i still need to grab a true mono cartridge one of these days.

best,
carlo

 

[Clay]

I have a 70's ...Rotel RP-3000
70's Micro Acoustics 2002 (still looking for a stylus)
70's Micro Acoustics 282e
I just picked up a ~60's Empire 208 - it looks really cool, yet could probably use a new upgraded arm. One guy on the web does a mod for ~$2k to this table, yet that is too rich for my blood.

I have a McIntosh C20 tube preamp - it is well known for its phono stage.

I am out of room, yet based on this thread, I will find somewhere to park my turntable so I can listen once again tonight.

I have a zerostat and it works well.

I guess I need to try cleaning my records better to clean up the sound.

What would you recomend for a new issue LP with great sound?
Like Heart, Deep Purple, Steely Dan, Yes, Nora Jones, Ricky Lee Jones, Alman Brothers, Sting

I would also be interested in knowing what level of improvement I would get with a better cartridge.

 

[Tuberoller]

Thanks to whomever revived this thread.

I'll first say that I love the fact that so many are rediscovering vinyl.It was never lost but I'm glad more are enjoying it.

The Classic records reissues are first rate and the quality and sonics are amazing.The best I have heard are the Four Men With Beards reissuses.The Aretha Franklin reissue was particularly stellar.I heard things in that recording I never have heard before on any playback system.I love the Sundazed products and have bought every single one.The sound quality is fantastic and the clarity and affection with wich the masters have been treated is evident with each play.The only vinyl I don't like are some of the Italian reissues of American Jazz performers.Watch out for really bad reissues of Nina Simone"Little Girl Blue" and anything on Italian labels by Albert Ayler or Charles Mingus.The music is too important to treated so badly.


I think the cartridge is not as important to vinyl playback sonics as the table itself is.The Music Hall tables prove this.Roy Hall has made some great sounding tables and fitted them with cartridges that were only good ,not great.The results defy all conventional notions of sonics as related to vinyl playback.I think a table that has a very quiet drive assembly,good platter isolation,and a stiff adjustable tonearm will make even a fair cartridge sound good.I still prefer a good Moving Magnet for low cost performance and any of the cheaper Clearaudio,Grado,Audio Technica,Ortofon or Goldring cartridges should do a great job.I don't like the Shure,Rega,Denon or Sumiko.The Sumiko in particular,these have always been difficult to setup and even harder to mount properly.

I strongly recommend the Musichall tables,these are as good as you have heard hyped all over the place.The MMF-5 is the absolute steal of the century.It sounds great and is a breeze to set-up.The MMF-2 is also a great table and you can't go wrong for the price.The only table I was disappointed with was the MMF-1.It is such a giant step down in performance from the MMF-2 that I now feel it is not really worth the $200 asking price.The best table I have heard so far for anywhere near a reasonable price is the MMF-7.It is an amazing thing in many ways.Sound,build quality,value.I also like the Thorens tables.They are the only really,truly Audiophile grade semi-auto tables currently available.they come with first rate cartridges as well and the semi-auto mechanisms do nothing to degrade sonics.I hate Rega tables.I have never had one that didn't run fast and have a sloppy plinth or arm board.I like the Clearaudio Champion and the Project tables as well.I just got a VPI Scout and have fitted it with a Clearaudio Virtuoso and this thing is so sweet.It is an outstanding value at $1500 but has some flaws that I think can be solved with some slight design changes.


clean those records please.An Orbitrac record cleaning system only costs $45.00 and can make some astonishing improvements in your analog listening experience.Yeah,I have several cleaning machines but they are not a neccessity.


I love it when I am able to convert someone to the vinyl brotherhood.It is especially rewarding to grant the pleasure of vinyl playback to those who have never heard it.records are so cool.When I have guests and they see me playing a record it almost always starts interesting conversation.My wife is also a huge vinyl lover and really likes having a table in our bedroom.the soft, wavy reflection of the spinning vinyl and the great sound are so relaxing.I hope I have helped clarify some of the concerns you guys might have about vinyl and playback systems.I would encourage a hunt through the Audio asylum archives as well.I don't like the site or some of the people that use it often,but it is a good souce of information on occasion.

 

[TimSchirmer]

amen to that! Today I took apart my CEC to see how it worked. (a thing I do with most of my audio toys) and it was so simple, The whole concept is seriously the purest audio format possible....I mean...actually cutting the sound wave into a physical material is short of amazing. I'm tempted to get upgrade to one of those music hall tt's once I have more records. I actually do need some way to clean my records...but won't commit to one of those overpriced cleaning machines. Any suggestions? (i already have a zerostat and a decca brush that i borrow from my dad) I am also going to buy a wood grado arm on ebay (for novelty's sake if anything. I can't mount it to my CEC, but when I get another table, I will tinker)

Also....how do the 300-400$ music hall tables compare to a thorens TD124MKII with an SME 3009 arm?

 

[Anders]

Rega may not be competetive in US. For roughly the same amount of money, you get a P3 in US and a P25 in UK.
Tuberoller, thanks for the tip of Orbitrac, I will check it up.

 

[jopi]

Alright, here's what I've got:

Clearaudio Champion Turntable

Rega 250 ST Arm with Quintwire

Benz Microglider L2 (0.3mV)

Phonomena Phone Stage (loaded at 1000 Ohm)

Straightwire Interconnect

Headroom Little (waiting for Headroom's LA stop for possible replacement)

AKG 501s

Nitty Gritty Record Washer with Disc Doctor Cleaning Stuff


If there's anybody living in Orange County or coming by and interested in listening to any of my stuff, feel free to email me. If you bring over your favorite headphone and amp, that'll be great!

Keep spinning.

 

[TimSchirmer]

wow...that's a pretty sweet rig ya got there. Im tempted to go over there just to try out that clearaudio. Im soo poor...i've got to scrimp and save for an MMF-5. (will have enough in about 3 months) I',m kinda mad at my CEC turntable right now....I just found out that I can not replace the tonearm, or the tonearm cable. Im really tempted to go with one of those older systemdek tables...or maybe even save up for a SOTA. For now though...most of my money is focused on getting good LP's. Gladly...I am very happy with my DIY headphone amp right now. It sounds very nice to my ears. Perhaps in the future I will try to build the bottlehead headphone amp when it comes out.

 

[jopi]

Hi Tim,

Are you going to be at the LA show stop? Let's set something up after that. Believe or not I've never listened to the Senns, so bring'em over and we'll spin some records.

 

[daycart1]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuberoller .I just got a VPI Scout and have fitted it with a Clearaudio Virtuoso and this thing is so sweet.It is an outstanding value at $1500 but has some flaws that I think can be solved with some slight design changes. ======= I almost got one of these; I'd be curious to hear your take on the flaws and fixups.... ==== I love it when I am able to convert someone to the vinyl brotherhood.It is especially rewarding to grant the pleasure of vinyl playback to those who have never heard it.records are so cool..

Keep up the good preaching!