Bravo Audio V2 Review - Big Sound in a Small Package

[DefQon]

Quote:

Did the sunrise project address RF shielding issues? I do expect it has a better power switch. Does it have a power on/off delay, to prevent the "Thump!"?

There is no interference noise coming out of the headphones when I had my lot plugged into the 3-4 Sunrise amp's I built for friends. I mean for a $200kit, all these simpleton problem's are eliminated.

 

[Evshrug]

Good, they ought to be and I expected them to be. And that was what I was trying to point out really: the Bravo/Indeed amps basically sound good, but they are cheap because they cut so many corners and have a few "simpleton problems."

Interesting and totally unrelated observation at this moment: listening to Grado SR60 through my iPod 5th gen's hp jack sounds unnatural compared to my Q701 setup at home. Still fun, but I miss the Q701. Still haven't won/ordered a Tube for my amp yet.

 

[drmrwt]

anyone using dt770's 250 ohm with these?

 

[Evshrug]

Woah, I'd forgotten about this thread/review.

 

[Ponczomarinero]

I am using Little Bear - clone of bravo and indeed with my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250ohm. Sounds superb out of the box even with chinese tube on. There is a space for mods. Change some resistors for Dale or PRP ones, output capacitors for Elna, Nichicon, transistors for 510 type. I bought it just for tests because was cheap, but for that price wouldn't be disapponted. Listening this kind of tube sound is a pleasure specially in some guitars and vocals area. You can't stop listening it.
There is some selling little bear amp very cheap but be carefully - there is two blue led diodes! one of them must be red (giving reference voltage). For that price that little gem is excellent for modding. First I can recommend is changing two cheap bias potentiometers and output caps. Anyway Beyerdynamics sounds excellent on it. Remember, buy amplifiers with yellow relay on the board, they have a switch for 6v and 12v tubes.
 
Matt

 

[Evshrug]

Matt, with all the modding effort you've put into your amp, why NOT try another $15 tube? Even a such a cheap NOS tube can make a drastic difference.

 

[Ponczomarinero]

Allready using Philips ECG Valve, some Tungsram PCC88 which I have heard good opinion about is coming. 
 
Now I am thinking about some Project Sunrise but price  making me just thinking at the moment. I have found some interesting information about AUNE T1 but it is DAC+AMP. Still looking for some outstanding valve amplifier after I will stop searching. Is it possible to stop searching? 

 

[Evshrug]

Probably not. Did you find the "super simple 6DJ8" thread that was meantioned quite earlier on in this thread? Interestingly, it's what [the somewhat grating socially] UpstateNyGuy (or whatever his name was) was arguing against Judge Buff as worth getting over the "curiosity" Bravo amp. As much as I don't think that guy contributed much to the thread, I did end up looking up the amp he was talking about, and three months later I had a hand-built amp from DIY Head-Fi'er Zigis, and it is the best sounding amp I've ever heard: amazing dynamics, soundstage, and imaging. I haven't tried every tube amp under the sun, but I'm REALLY happy with Zigis' amp.

 

[Ponczomarinero]

Thanx Evshrug for some info abaout super simple amp.
 
Strange, that simpler version of Bravo, Indeed, Little Bear etc. may sounds better.
All of them has been based on Sijosae MHHA amplifier. Logically thinking the version 3  should represent better SQ.
I know the tubes makes big diference. What tube are you using? 
 
What I was thinking we should try to design better PCB with some space for better coupling condensators, better cooling, decent power supply, specially better potentiometer. I have already started some basic version of PCB in free Eagle version, but I am amateur and this is my first pcb design. Probably I wan't finish it. Maybe anyone doing similar project already. Maybe someone seen some good quality PCB for similars project?
 
I have read good opinions about HA10 made by Custom Hifi Cables and is based on similar schematic. 
 
I need to read from beginning the super simple sdj8 thread.
 
Still looking for

 

[Evshrug]

Did you find the thread? I don't think the "Rock 'n Glass," as Zigis calls it, is a Sijosae based design... I think it's based on an even simpler Class A, Single Ended Triode design from the early days of audiophilia. Of course, I could be wrong, I wasn't the one to design it. But yeah, simple/less complicated isn't necessarily a step down in quality from some complex design, and Zigis used some nice quality parts. Parts I think on the same quality level as the Project Sunrise II amp, but a different circuit design. I read all the way through the Super Simple 6DJ8 amp thread (wasn't too bad) and the "cute little amp" thread about the Bravo (which took MONTHS), learned a fair bit along the way, but I'm not ready to DIY.

Zigis would probably sell you a PCB, but apparently making the first template for a board for mass production printing is expensive, so making your own PCB might be expensive for just one amp. Plus, his enclosure is really classy, with the aluminum case acting as a heatsink (doesn't get hot) and nice wooden side panels.

Right now I'm using an Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy from the 70's I think (the label is pretty worn down), it's very nice, but I have another Bugle Boy I'd like to roll and some Vokshod 6N23P tubes I need to try. I also have a Sylvania JAN 6DJ8 I liked, and a more average Amperex that is dark for my tastes.

 

[Ponczomarinero]

Have you heard Project Sunrise or Bravo,Indeed G2, G3? Can you compare Zigis one to them?
I know that is very hard to compare Bravo/Indeed with some cheap tube with Zigis using some Amperex gem.
What I am trying to do is buy the best possible tube amp in that range of price.
Indeed g3 is a option and Project Sunrise II which is for me little bit overpriced. But I really like Zigis stylish case. If it plays same as two mentioned I will go for ZIgis
I have just contacted Zigis and unfortunately haven't had any PCB. But have some for sell.

 

[Evshrug]

I haven't been able to compare the hybrids vs the Rock 'N Glass side-by-side, but if I did have both amps I could swap the tube between them to minimize that difference. Nice thing about NOS tubes, there are great deals to be had: I got my pair of Bugle Boys for $15. I'm actually interested in trying the Vokshod tubes next; the Bugle Boy I have right now is pretty microphonic and produces a ringing noise if I bump the table by accident (happens sometimes when I wiggle my feet with the music), but the military-spec 6N23P tubes are supposed to be more heavy-duty and not be noticeably microphonic. I also got 4 of those tubes for like $20, there are some great deals on tubes from eBay sellers in Eastern Europe.

The sunrise II is pretty much a modded and component-upgraded G3, while the Rock & Glass has more in common with the Schiit Lyr ( both Class A single-ended triode amps, except the R&G only needs one tube at a time). The way I see it, I jumped straight to a level of quality that I would be happy with and would last me for a long time. Zigis is coming from DIY roots and is kind of new to selling amps to others, but before this tube amp he's had some selling success on eBay with what I believe was a cmoy.

He may not have PCBs anymore, because after I bought mine I urged him to have the enclosures ready to go, so the PCBs may have gone into assembled amps. A completed amp is probably the best way to go, that way he can test everything's working well. It's up to you though.

 

[DefQon]

If you're looking at a G3 may well as well just skip it, drop a bit more extra cash and go for an all out diy Sunrise as it is imo the best simple kit designed 12AU7 amp out there for cheap that can also take 6v tubes. 
 
If you do have some diy skills, you can start with a base Starving Student kit and upgrade from there and reach further than a Sunrise in most aspects related to sound only. A good chassis enclosure will not be cheap though depending on how you like your aesthetics.

 

[Ponczomarinero]

Problem with starving student is, there is no kit to build it. At least needs PCB to start. Another problem I cant find anyone or any place I can hear amplifier I will buy. I have read lot opinions about amps which I havent heard. I know I want hybrid or tube amplifier because specific sweet sound. Never forget my first bravo 2 with chineese 12au7 tube and women vocals. I was listening all my jazz music again and again.

What I am thinking about my next headfi project is some tube / hybrid amp which takes my level up in sound quality. I am just afraid that lot of transformers and difficult enclosure for tube amps will be too much for me. This is a reason I prefer buying specially some cheneese amplifiers and improving them. This way hybrid amps are much convenient to do - no output trafos and high voltages. 
 
Interesting thing about starving student, but what I have seen searching quickly SS using some strange kind of tubes which I couldn't find on ebay or they are much less popular than 12AU7 or 6922. There is no starving student kit on www.beezar.com some Torpedo instead which looks impresive. I wonder how it sounds
 
What about Minimax there is full kit on beezar.com ?
 
Panda amplifier which is solid state is interesting to do. But next project stars after I have some decent tube amplifier for listening the music between DIY sessions
 
 
 
At the moment considering g3, sunrise and  Zigis (simply 6dj8 amp) the third one is winning. I belief putting decent tube brings me big fun with listening the music and rolling tubes. 

 

[DefQon]

Use p2p for the Starving Student as p2p is the best you can get out of tube amp's. Use PCB's only when it is a must and required (or to skimp on high costs from p2p wiring efforts).
 
Curious of this Zigis, what's the cost to get one built? Got plenty of 6DJ8 to 6SL7 adaptors.