[dpastern]

 
nope even the great ak240 does a conversion inside the dac to PCM for the reasons I stated before.  The cirrus logic chip can in fact do DSD natively but has to be ran in hardware mode and the an output stage to shape the electric signal of the dsd output.  The ak240 does not have two I/V stages to process both PCM and DSD analog output (from the dac) so it can't shape the signal natively for both.  The biggest tell that the ak240 converts is that it uses digital volume control as it is imposible to use digital volume control with dsd. 
 
I believe I did say that studios master are high rate PCM.

 
Yes, I know you said that studio masters are high rate PCM.  My comment was more to denigrate DSD as being well...useless.  Why record in DSD when you can only master in high bitrate PCM?  You're going to probably lose something quality wise converting from DSD to PCM.  Might as well abandon DSD and just record and master in high bitrate PCM imho.
 
That's surprising about the AK240, since AK states it does DSD natively.  If that is not the case, that is blatant fraud on their part.

 

[RUMAY408]

I love the AK 100ll as a portable player 
 
AK 100ll>balanced out ALO MKlllB+>HD800

 

[CJs06]

Ermahgerd
 
http://www.astellnkern.com/eng/htm/accessory/100_2_case.asp
 
http://www.astellnkern.com/eng/htm/accessory/120_2_case.asp

 

[audiofrk]

   
Yes, I know you said that studio masters are high rate PCM.  My comment was more to denigrate DSD as being well...useless.  Why record in DSD when you can only master in high bitrate PCM?  You're going to probably lose something quality wise converting from DSD to PCM.  Might as well abandon DSD and just record and master in high bitrate PCM imho.
 
That's surprising about the AK240, since AK states it does DSD natively.  If that is not the case, that is blatant fraud on their part.

DSD is liked by some.  pcm got a bad rap in its early days as there were very few true 16 bit dacs at the beginning.  To be fare DSD works better with Delta-sigma dacs and PCM works better with R2R dacs though obviously implementation is key. It was actually the PS3 that relaunched peoples love of DSD which sucks because the PCM vs DSD argument takes away from the true problem, bad mastering.
 
 
yeah still trying to figure out why'd they say that its native but I donno maybe they know something about DSD I don't.

 

[dpastern]

  DSD is liked by some.  pcm got a bad rap in its early days as there were very few true 16 bit dacs at the beginning.  To be fare DSD works better with Delta-sigma dacs and PCM works better with R2R dacs though obviously implementation is key. It was actually the PS3 that relaunched peoples love of DSD which sucks because the PCM vs DSD argument takes away from the true problem, bad mastering.
 
 
yeah still trying to figure out why'd they say that its native but I donno maybe they know something about DSD I don't.

 
I dunno about DSD, I've never been sold on SACD, although direct experience with true DSD DAC/files is non existent for myself.  I remember the good old days of Philips 1 bit bitstream (in particular, the TDA-1547 DAC (some cool info - http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/philips_tda1547/).  My DPA PDM 1 DAC uses that DAC as well as a SAA7350 and it blows any of the new CD players away imho.  Even my SACD player (Denon 1510AE SACD unit).  Sadly, it's developed issues with one of the channels, and spare parts are non existent now.  Perhaps I am a Dinosaur...all that is new is not shiny and good.  
 
Still, I am very happy with being able to carry my entire CD collection around with me  The AK240 would have been better due to the increased NAND storage...but...I really do hope that AK offers customers the options to upgrade storage on the units, but I seriously doubt that they will.  Depending on how custom it is, in theory, it should be possible to DIY (and just DD the image from the old AK drive to the new one).  But firmware and custom o/s hacks might cause issues with it booting still.  

 

[goodvibes]

I'm with you on DSD. Never saw the need nor advantage. 
 
As for conversion for V control goes, it's a bit gray on the CS logic chip but ESS say they do it like this. 
 
How DSD volume control is done in the ES9018 DAC chip.


MW: How do you handle volume control in that final output stage? Do you convert to analog and then turn it up and down.
JS: We actually don’t. We do process that at the high sample rate and we have multiple 1-bit converters that are available to us. So the increase in word length that we get as a function of that volume control makes use of the redundant 1-bit converters that we have running in parallel.
MW: I see.
JS: So we’re not converting it…in a way you could look at that as if it’s PCM because there’s multiple 1-bit converters summed together in the analog domain. But that’s what you have to do to get volume control to work. The good thing is we don’t take it from 1-bit to multi-bit and back to 1-bit before we convert it to analog.
MW: Yep, as you were saying before.
JS: Instead of sending identical DSD signals to sixteen balanced 1-bit converters that are wired in parallel, we start sending different DSD signals to reduce the signal amplitude. All summing occurs in the analog domain. It is very cool.
 
​This is in effect converting DSD to PCM via their proprietary ASRC but maintaining it as a 1 bit format. To me, this is decimation even if not implied as such. May not be detrimental depending on the inboard ASRC since their processor is single bit with 32 bit res. Lends itself well to this without much manipulation. CS states that they don't decimate but something like this going on and their V control is likely a bit

less elegant. 

 

[dpastern]

  I'm with you on DSD. Never saw the need nor advantage. 
 
As for conversion for V control goes, it's a bit gray on the CS logic chip but ESS say they do it like this. 
 
How DSD volume control is done in the ES9018 DAC chip.


MW: How do you handle volume control in that final output stage? Do you convert to analog and then turn it up and down.
JS: We actually don’t. We do process that at the high sample rate and we have multiple 1-bit converters that are available to us. So the increase in word length that we get as a function of that volume control makes use of the redundant 1-bit converters that we have running in parallel.
MW: I see.
JS: So we’re not converting it…in a way you could look at that as if it’s PCM because there’s multiple 1-bit converters summed together in the analog domain. But that’s what you have to do to get volume control to work. The good thing is we don’t take it from 1-bit to multi-bit and back to 1-bit before we convert it to analog.
MW: Yep, as you were saying before.
JS: Instead of sending identical DSD signals to sixteen balanced 1-bit converters that are wired in parallel, we start sending different DSD signals to reduce the signal amplitude. All summing occurs in the analog domain. It is very cool.
 
​This is in effect converting DSD to PCM via their proprietary ASRC but maintaining it as a 1 bit format. To me, this is decimation even if not implied as such. May not be detrimental depending on the inboard ASRC since their processor is single bit with 32 bit res. Lends itself well to this without much manipulation. CS states that they don't decimate but something like this going on and their V control is likely a bit

less elegant. 

 
Excellent post!  There's smarter people than me around here!  I generally try not to get too involved in the technology, even though I work in IT as a tech.  I personally prefer for things to just work and not have to worry about tech stuff under the skin.  I had a listen to Michael Jackson's Thriller (DSD via acoustic sounds) and it's alright, but I doubt that there's any real substantial difference to a FLAC rip from the CD...I'm sort of too lazy to go and compare, so my hat's off to the reviewers who are meticulous enough and driven enough to do so.
 
But, I maintain that SACD/DSD are unneeded.  

 

[goodvibes]

I do like HiDef PCM but also know that the difference is often not the most significant thing you can improve in a setup or system. We often speak in absolutes here when we aren't able to compare in something that remotely resembles that environment. Why I never doubt what someone 'hears' but take opinions of what's heard, or not for that matter, with a grain.

 

[audiofrk]

  I'm with you on DSD. Never saw the need nor advantage. 
 
As for conversion for V control goes, it's a bit gray on the CS logic chip but ESS say they do it like this. 
 
How DSD volume control is done in the ES9018 DAC chip.


MW: How do you handle volume control in that final output stage? Do you convert to analog and then turn it up and down.
JS: We actually don’t. We do process that at the high sample rate and we have multiple 1-bit converters that are available to us. So the increase in word length that we get as a function of that volume control makes use of the redundant 1-bit converters that we have running in parallel.
MW: I see.
JS: So we’re not converting it…in a way you could look at that as if it’s PCM because there’s multiple 1-bit converters summed together in the analog domain. But that’s what you have to do to get volume control to work. The good thing is we don’t take it from 1-bit to multi-bit and back to 1-bit before we convert it to analog.
MW: Yep, as you were saying before.
JS: Instead of sending identical DSD signals to sixteen balanced 1-bit converters that are wired in parallel, we start sending different DSD signals to reduce the signal amplitude. All summing occurs in the analog domain. It is very cool.
 
​This is in effect converting DSD to PCM via their proprietary ASRC but maintaining it as a 1 bit format. To me, this is decimation even if not implied as such. May not be detrimental depending on the inboard ASRC since their processor is single bit with 32 bit res. Lends itself well to this without much manipulation. CS states that they don't decimate but something like this going on and their V control is likely a bit

less elegant. 

I wonder if this only applies if you use there internal I/V stage? Since summing the analog output would require quite a bit of space to keep noise low. Still makes me wonder about the difference need to make an I/V stage work with both DSD and PCM. 

  I do like HiDef PCM but also know that the difference is often not the most significant thing you can improve in a setup or system. We often speak in absolutes here when we aren't able to compare in something that remotely resembles that environment. Why I never doubt what someone 'hears' but take opinions of what's heard, or not for that matter, with a grain.

couldn't agree more your own ears should be the final judge.

 

[goodvibes]

I have a bit more access to 1st hand analog masters and top home and recording kit so it's bit more cut and dry for me but I still never doubt what anyone hears under their particular conditions. Nothing's an absolute when it comes to sound but I do find a majority pick the same things, given a good situation to.

 

[Morphious]

ok, about to go traveling with my AK120II.   Want to get a Pelican case for it.  What size do you think would be the best for holing the AK120 II, as well as earbuds, very small charger and usb cable?  The 1020 case looks a little big, do you think a 1015 micro case will work? 

 

[warrior1975]

I have the 1020 I believe, fits my 120ii, cables, and 2 pairs of IEMS rather nicely. I'm laying in bed, too lazy, but tomorrow I can take a few pics of it for you so you can see. I have a thicker aftermarket cable so I'm sure the next size down would be a bit smaller, probably the perfect size for what you want.

 

[flymetothemoon]

  ok, about to go traveling with my AK120II.   Want to get a Pelican case for it.  What size do you think would be the best for holing the AK120 II, as well as earbuds, very small charger and usb cable?  The 1020 case looks a little big, do you think a 1015 micro case will work? 

Another alternative to a Pelican case is a soft case that holds external hard disk.  I use this for my 240 and works extremely well...oh one thing...your 120ii is taller it might not work for you.

 

[Morphious]

An interesting option is the i1030 which has the cary sections for the cords, earbuds, etc. this may be an interesting one, but only comes in white and yellow  

 

[mike7898]

Just put up hrs ago,I believe this may be the very first review of the AK100II, Enjoyhttp://headphone.guru/astell-kern-ak100-ii-portable-pleasure/