[warrior1975]

@ripvanlink-what is the difference if you get custom or universal? if the universal sounds incredible, which the Ref1 absolutely does, does it really matter? To dismiss the Ref1 just based on the fact that it's a uni doesn't make sense, too me at least. unless you have fit issues you are predisposed of

 

[Ripvanlink]

I plan to go to the Head-fi meet here in San Diego on November 1st and Noble Audio will be there where I'll get a chance to audition them hopefully. I don't know if the Ref.1 will be there too, but maybe someone will have one for me to audition too. Anyway, I'm not too worried. I have a lot of confidence in the nobility of Noble, lol, based on their respondability here on Head-fi. It gives me confidence that they care about the product and their customers, like Fiio does.
I've noticed also that the guy who makes the Ref.1 and 1p2 also has  a really good rep with Headfiers, so I'll be weighing issues to make the best choice for myself, based on what I find out and what I'm able to hear.
I wish you the best, Chris, on getting hitched and having a happy honeymoon.

 

[ChrisSC]

here's a good article:
 
http://musictechreview.com/in-ear-monitors-balanced-armature-drivers-vs-dynamic-drivers/
 
Balanced armatures and dynamic drivers utilize different technology to emit sound.  Have you ever been somewhere loud where things actually shake due to the music?  That's because loudspeakers (or any speakers, really) use dynamic drivers that literally push sound through air, unlike balanced armatures, which actually vibrate.  Because dynamic drivers, as a mechanism, recoil, there's a slight delay and they aren't as precise as balanced armatures.  The technology in both DDs and BAs has gotten pretty good so that in IEMs they're more similar than different, but still there is a difference.  If you want authentic bass, you'll be better served with dynamic drivers, but if you want detailed highs and mids (highs present the most information on the sound spectrum) you'll be best served by balanced armatures.
 
That's a quick overview, and I hope that helps.
 
And thanks Rip for the honeymoon wishes! 

 

[Ripvanlink]

My greatest hope, as far as which Iems I pick, is that it will address the problem I've experienced with classical music with large orchestras when the players perform together in loud passages, in orchestral tuttis. It is, I suspect, a problem with the recordings themselves but most of the time, the sound becomes muddy, the instruments lose their individuality, the imaging gets lost and the whole effect is unpleasantly strident. This is the problem that I am most unhappy about!
Maybe that's an inherent limitation of the digital recording medium, perhaps the sampling and bit rates are too low, though many feel it has nothing to do with it, certainly not a unanimous feeling for sure.
I'm really hoping that at least some of the time, I will find that the problem is not the recording but the phones'. Has anybody had any experience of an improvement in what I've described here with a change of dap or iem or headphone?
Finally, which iem, in your opinion, the K10 or the Ref.1 would better handle it?

 

[ChrisSC]

Better equipment across the board (player, amp, cable, earphones) will give you greater instrument separation.  Classical music isn't so dependent on bass, and so if that's what you're mostly listening to and if you don't care so much about bass, you might be best served by purely balanced armature-based (C)IEMs.  On the other hand, I still find the ref 1s to be incredibly detailed and sound awesome with classical .  I certainly don't find classical recordings to sound blurred on my rwak120b + pico slim + ref 1 rig.  What equipment are you listening to now? What music file type?
 
I should also add, that unfortunately I haven't heard the kaiser 10s so I can't really offer you any further advice as to which to choose 

 

 

[Ripvanlink]

@ripvanlink-what is the difference if you get custom or universal? if the universal sounds incredible, which the Ref1 absolutely does, does it really matter? To dismiss the Ref1 just based on the fact that it's a uni doesn't make sense, too me at least. unless you have fit issues you are predisposed of

Warrior, I do have some rather pronounced fit issues. I've tried many different tips, none of which fit my ears. I may be prejudiced, but I also think that custom makes possible superior sound and isolation.
 
When I see people on the bus, with their run-of-the-mill iems, I marvel at how well they seem to fit in their ears, but I know if I were to try them, you know, those black rubber thingies that come with the iphones, samsungs, sansas and whatnot, I know only too well, they just wouldn't stay in my ear at all! Maybe the entrance to my ear canals are too small.
I own a pair of customs, the Um-modified TF10 and I like the way they fit in my ears. I can listen for hours upon hours w/o even noticing they are in my ears.
The only thing I'm hoping to improve upon, besides the muddied sound in loud orchestral passages, is for a greater soundstage spread, more of a sensation of the orchestra in front of me, rather than just to the sides. That's what I consider imaging and I hope either the K10 or the Ref.1 can give me more of that experience, but since the Ref.1 can only be partly customized, according to Chris here, that kind of leaves it out until further notice of a change. Still, I'd really like to hear some opinions and comments on what I've been driving at.

 

[Ripvanlink]

  Better equipment across the board (player, amp, cable, earphones) will give you greater instrument separation.  Classical music isn't so dependent on bass, and so if that's what you're mostly listening to and if you don't care so much about bass, you might be best served by purely balanced armature-based (C)IEMs.  On the other hand, I still find the ref 1s to be incredibly detailed and sound awesome with classical .  I certainly don't find classical recordings to sound blurred on my rwak120b + pico slim + ref 1 rig.  What equipment are you listening to now? What music file type?
 
I should also add, that unfortunately I haven't heard the kaiser 10s so I can't really offer you any further advice as to which to choose 

 

I am listening exclusively to my unamped Fiio X5 with Beat Audio (Unique Melody) silver cables. I only get that blurred sound during loud orchestral passages when most or all instruments are playing together. I am, in general, though, very happy with the X5 and I am not sure if it's not the recording's fault.
90% of the time, I listen to Classical Orchestral music, 10% to Jazz. Small orchestral groups don't create such annoyance to me, just the big orchestras.

 

[Ripvanlink]

Oh, I forgot, I listen almost exclusively to .flac recordings set at level 5 and I have one HD Press 24/96 recording of Lalo's Cello Concerto, which I am unimpressed with.
I am, as far as bass is concerned, quite pleased with the X5, silver cable, UMmodTF10 though it could be a little tighter sometimes, though not particularly deeper. The highs can do with a bit more clarity and a bit cleaner, I wouldn't mind.

 

[lee730]

  Chris,
Thanks a lot for clarifying issues here. Just one thing though. I have no knowledge about the difference between BAs an DDs. I have chosen the K10 b/c of the great reviews I've read on Head-fi, esp. from Serroslim. I was very impressed with what I read from him. I guess I'm also somewhat impressed by the 10 drivers that cover the frequency spectrum and, admittedly, that is really influencing my decision, the more is better quandary. Also, the Part-Time Audiophile was also very very impressed.
I don't even know what kind of drivers are in the K10, whether they are balanced or dynamic. It doesn't end there. I am also impressed by the care taken in the artwork which somewhat dazzles me, like a deer caught in the headlight beams of an oncoming auto, admittedly.
Perhaps the Ref.1 satisfies the Balanced and Dynamic scheme for someone such as I, if that's what you mean, but I'm not too concerned about my limited income situation, I'm willing to save up for a few months.
So... Chris, you're saying, I might do better with the Ref.1? Could you please explain. I'm listening.

 
K10 are BA. If you are willing to use a proxy I'd go for SE5 all the way for sound quality alone. That or NT6 if you are more of neutral fan. Can't really comment too much on the Refs I got because the balance is off on the set I have. Won't really know how good they are until I get a replacement in. But with a couple well recorded songs I could tell these really have potential. The detail in the mids, bass and treble is incredible... Bass goes the lowest I've heard on an IEM. Treble has such an eloquence and refinement to it that I've never heard before. Mids change quite a bit depending on the tracks. It can sound recessed or mid-centric depending. They do remind me of speakers more than IEMs...

 

[lee730]

  My greatest hope, as far as which Iems I pick, is that it will address the problem I've experienced with classical music with large orchestras when the players perform together in loud passages, in orchestral tuttis. It is, I suspect, a problem with the recordings themselves but most of the time, the sound becomes muddy, the instruments lose their individuality, the imaging gets lost and the whole effect is unpleasantly strident. This is the problem that I am most unhappy about!
Maybe that's an inherent limitation of the digital recording medium, perhaps the sampling and bit rates are too low, though many feel it has nothing to do with it, certainly not a unanimous feeling for sure.
I'm really hoping that at least some of the time, I will find that the problem is not the recording but the phones'. Has anybody had any experience of an improvement in what I've described here with a change of dap or iem or headphone?
Finally, which iem, in your opinion, the K10 or the Ref.1 would better handle it?

 
Don't think you'll find better than the 1Plus2 for classical concerning IEMs. Well the AKG3003 follows suite in that category IMO. The SE5 nor the 8A do classical justice. If the K10 is anything like those I doubt it will do it justice as well.

 

[nazrin313]

Don't think you'll find better than the 1Plus2 for classical concerning IEMs. Well the AKG3003 follows suite in that category IMO. The SE5 nor the 8A do classical justice. If the K10 is anything like those I doubt it will do it justice as well.

My RTi1 is miles ahead for classical compared to my 1plus2

 

[lee730]

Sounds interesting. How is the build on them? Good warranty support?

 

[nazrin313]

  Sounds interesting. How is the build on them? Good warranty support?

but i also have the say the 1plus2 is also miles ahead in modern recordings (EDM, pop, rock) lol. I say the 2 compliments each other.
 
Because mine was probably the first metal housing made by Rhapsodio, it was JUST okay. But now, the build quality is brilliant (says new owners) and ofcos warranty is great, Sammy takes care of all his customers.

 

[lee730]

  but i also have the say the 1plus2 is also miles ahead in modern recordings (EDM, pop, rock) lol. I say the 2 compliments each other.
 
Because mine was probably the first metal housing made by Rhapsodio, it was JUST okay. But now, the build quality is brilliant (says new owners) and ofcos warranty is great, Sammy takes care of all his customers.

 
With more time with the SE5 I found it to do rock the best by far. The newer stuff with less dynamic range sounds better on SE5. 1Plus2 for me excelled in music with high dynamic range or classical. Such as Great Film Fantasies - Kunzel (Star wars, Lord of the Rings & Harry Potter) DSD.

 

[nazrin313]

With more time with the SE5 I found it to do rock the best by far. The newer stuff with less dynamic range sounds better on SE5. 1Plus2 for me excelled in music with high dynamic range or classical. Such as Great Film Fantasies - Kunzel (Star wars, Lord of the Rings & Harry Potter) DSD.

Thanks lee will check it out and test