[mainguy]

That means that B&W still employs (some of) the same minds behind the P7/P9, but Apple also has some of those brilliant minds behind P7/P9 in their team. Oh, and Apple apparently loved the B&W headphones as well haha!

Edit: just found that one of Apple's transducer engineers came from B&W last year!

I was so curious about this that i recently emailed B&W congratulating them on their p9 headphones and asking if they’d produce more similar sets; they did say that the ’market is moving’ toward portable convenience as opposed to passive listening. It’s just so hard for me to understand how a company went from the gorgeous P5, P7 & P9 to the monstrosity that is the PX/PX7, both in sound and form.

Apple used to sell B&W cans in all their UK stores. So i’m not suprised to see they headhunted some B&W talent; somewhat explains the brilliance of the airpod pro and max.

 

[MayaTlab]

It’s just so hard for me to understand how a company went from the gorgeous P5, P7 & P9 to the monstrosity that is the PX/PX7, both in sound and form.

I never listened to the P9 but listened to all of the P3/P5/P7 sets and personally only the P7W used wirelessly really struck a chord, although I did enjoy the steady improvement between the first P5 and the P5W/P7W. I too was expecting the improvement to continue, not the huge step backwards that the PX and PX7 have been.

This isn't limited to B&W. Why the effin' fcuk nearly all manufacturers of BT over-ears (and it's just the over-ears, the in ears have made massive and steady progress in the last few years in terms of tuning) can't be bothered to use the effin' DSP capabilities of the chips that they put in their headphones anyway to shape their FR curve properly so that they don't sound like crap ? If anyone at home can use a few parametric EQ bands, let's say by loading up a profile from Oratory1990 or AutoEQ, and then EQ to taste (we're all a bit different - but not to the point where it justifies FR curves made for the anatomy of the aliens in Mars Attack), then so can HPs manufacturers. A lot of them are using Qualcomm's latest chips that are perfectly capable of doing so (and I bet most SoCs as well).

This situation, where a four years old pair of BT headphones (P7W), or a €110 pair of closed back, entirely passively tuned headphones (K371), can claim to be considerably better tuned than modern, active, DSP enabled HPs, is utterly irrationally idiotic.

 

[mainguy]

I never listened to the P9 but listened to all of the P3/P5/P7 sets and personally only the P7W used wirelessly really struck a chord, although I did enjoy the steady improvement between the first P5 and the P5W/P7W. I too was expecting the improvement to continue, not the huge step backwards that the PX and PX7 have been.

This isn't limited to B&W. Why the effin' fcuk nearly all manufacturers of BT over-ears (and it's just the over-ears, the in ears have made massive and steady progress in the last few years in terms of tuning) can't be bothered to use the effin' DSP capabilities of the chips that they put in their headphones anyway to shape their FR curve properly so that they don't sound like crap ? If anyone at home can use a few parametric EQ bands, let's say by loading up a profile from Oratory1990 or AutoEQ, and then EQ to taste (we're all a bit different - but not to the point where it justifies FR curves made for the anatomy of the aliens in Mars Attack), then so can HPs manufacturers. A lot of them are using Qualcomm's latest chips that are perfectly capable of doing so (and I bet most SoCs as well).

This situation, where a four years old pair of BT headphones (P7W), or a €110 pair of closed back, entirely passively tuned headphones (K371), can claim to be considerably better tuned than modern, active, DSP enabled HPs, is utterly irrationally idiotic.

It is a tad odd how companies are standing still a bit. I agree it’s not just B&W, I have owned the MW65 and the much older, wired MH40 both from master and dynamic. The MW65 is double the price, bluetooth, yada yada...But listening to both, it’s actually quite apparrent the MW65 sounds worse, not just bT vs wired, but wired vs wired! Same as the PX/PX7 vs P7W. I have no idea why, but it’s a real shame the mad dash for ANC and bluetooth has resulted in such losses in audio quality when it doesn’t seem necessary at all.

And the thing is bluetooth well...It’s not that amazing, imo. Actually i’ve found it a bit of a nuisance, and having my headphones with a lightning cable actually more convenient than bluetooth. Having to Pair things over and over which inevitably happens, running out of battery on yet another device to charge...I don’t know, but when you add the fact SQ is worse, it just seems like a rough deal. Only Apple have really made BT seamless in my experience, which is why im very curious about the APM. I have a hunch it wont sound much better than the P7W for five times the price at current market values haha.

 

[aut0maticdan]

If the AirPod Max has it all going: ANC, BT, Transparency mode, Spatial Audio (wish it worked with ATV) PLUS great sound from B&W expats, then that would make their price more palatable. I really like the AirPods Pros for their feature set and pocketability--but am not keen on just sitting and listening to music with them. The Maxes initially felt a bit too expensive for the slot they fill.

I haven't heard them or dug into the thread for the Max just yet. Would be interested to try them out, though think I'm going to be good for a while on the portable front with the AirPods pros, p7w and likely adding Aeon 2 Noire.

 

[tinyman392]

So these seem to be a bit of a pain to find used; you can kind of forget about finding them new. I was able to get a used pair, and a new set of pads for good measure. The case got to me a but crushed, so I'll end up forking for one of those too. Initial impressions barring any sort of pads breaking in is that these don't seem as a dark as I remember the original P7 while having the majority of the sound signatures that I remember in the P7. Unfortunately ABing the two won't be possible right now since the P7 is sitting in an office that I haven't had access to since early November.

When comparing to the AirPods Max, they are easily discernible from the bass perspective alone. There is a tad bit more texturing and a much larger body/presence to the bass. The P7W are thicker and more boomy/thumpy in comparison while remaining somewhat tight and controlled. This leads to a midrange that is actually clearer and less veiled in the APM, not that the P7W lack clarity though. Detail retrieval is easier in the APM and set up in such a way you'd have to listen for them in the P7W. Vocals are a bit of a weakness of the APM, they don't have that upper edge that female vocals. While the P7W isn't super great at this either, it is an improvement over the APM. Sibilance is a lot better controlled on the B&W as well. The P7W do treble detailing and smoothness much better. The APM have a secondary, and more serious, flaw in the treble where they have a tendency to smear treble. The B&W do this much better and offer better detailing and clarity as a whole.

When comparing to the PX... It's probably not worth the comparison... Though I do wish that the P7W had the auto on/off and play/pause features the PX have. I don't have a PX7 to compare to. The P7W are also more comfortable than the PX, though I feel like the PX run a bit cooler on the ear, not by much though.

 

[mainguy]

So these seem to be a bit of a pain to find used; you can kind of forget about finding them new. I was able to get a used pair, and a new set of pads for good measure. The case got to me a but crushed, so I'll end up forking for one of those too. Initial impressions barring any sort of pads breaking in is that these don't seem as a dark as I remember the original P7 while having the majority of the sound signatures that I remember in the P7. Unfortunately ABing the two won't be possible right now since the P7 is sitting in an office that I haven't had access to since early November.

When comparing to the AirPods Max, they are easily discernible from the bass perspective alone. There is a tad bit more texturing and a much larger body/presence to the bass. The P7W are thicker and more boomy/thumpy in comparison while remaining somewhat tight and controlled. This leads to a midrange that is actually clearer and less veiled in the APM, not that the P7W lack clarity though. Detail retrieval is easier in the APM and set up in such a way you'd have to listen for them in the P7W. Vocals are a bit of a weakness of the APM, they don't have that upper edge that female vocals. While the P7W isn't super great at this either, it is an improvement over the APM. Sibilance is a lot better controlled on the B&W as well. The P7W do treble detailing and smoothness much better. The APM have a secondary, and more serious, flaw in the treble where they have a tendency to smear treble. The B&W do this much better and offer better detailing and clarity as a whole.

When comparing to the PX... It's probably not worth the comparison... Though I do wish that the P7W had the auto on/off and play/pause features the PX have. I don't have a PX7 to compare to. The P7W are also more comfortable than the PX, though I feel like the PX run a bit cooler on the ear, not by much though.

What an excellent post, I kind of suspected this with regards to the APM. Looks like youre paying for ANC and wireless tax while losing out on sound quality vs a 5 year old pair that retailed at almost half the price...not great but somewhat predictable lol
I

I just found a solid pair of p7w gonna pull the trigger

 

[tinyman392]

What an excellent post, I kind of suspected this with regards to the APM. Looks like youre paying for ANC and wireless tax while losing out on sound quality vs a 5 year old pair that retailed at almost half the price...not great but somewhat predictable lol
I

I just found a solid pair of p7w gonna pull the trigger

I’d honestly put them on the same tier. I prefer the APM bass, the P7W treble, and kind of call the midrange a wash with tradeoffs of clarity for sibilance and vocal energy (latter being very minor differences). But the APM does come with a pretty large premium to it, the P7W has a minor premium to it IMO. I’ll need to have more time with the P7W though and see if my opinions change. Not sure when that’ll happen as I’m expecting some planar IEMs coming in.

 

[MayaTlab]

I’d honestly put them on the same tier.

Me too, but only as far as FR curve is concerned (admittedly the most important thing by far). I think that the APM is considerably better than the P7W in terms of noise floor / pops / cracks / electronics whines, and has a stronger audio over BT implementation.

 

[mainguy]

Had these for a few days now, scored a brand new pair.

Really fun listen, they’re more fun to my ears than the Momentum 3, MW65 or PX which i all owned previously, and the MH40 which I’ve still got on hand.

I’m suprised to see posts made by people who prefer them to the P9, the P9 are very similar in sound sig but significantly better technically to my ears (wider sound stage, far better resolution, clarity and thickness of vocals, instrument seperation). The P9 are just more bassy.

Still figuring out if I’ll keep these over my MH40, so far am impressed! Although if this is all the APM muster in terms of sound I’d be a bit disappointed for £550.

Edit: So after a lot of comparisons with the MH40, these absolutely blow them out of the water in my opinion. It’s just no competition, on dynamics, instrument seperation, Mh40s 2D/flat sound just sounds really feeble compared to the 3d holographic sound these produce. Shame, the mh40s look the part too.

 

[rsnhakan]

I used my new P7 Wireless now for 10-20 hours. Charged it once. I have to say this one is way better than my P7 Wireless which I had a few years ago.

But I think I will sell it. I don't have that much time to use it.

 

[mainguy]

Thought it might be of interest to you guys I took some time to compare the P7W to the Airpods Max today.

The APM have me enamoured, the build, looks and convenience are just so good for someone in the apple ecosystem. So i haven’t listened to much else.

Anyway today I decided to dust of the P7W and compare...Oh dear, a bit of an illusion was lifted. The vocals on the APM never felt quite right, but compared to the P7W it really is drastic. They’re not at all volumous, they sound a distant and lack body. The P7w handle female vocals, for instance on Teardrop, so much better it almost completely changes the song.

It’s one of those things you wish you never did. But i think I’ll have to return my APM now, back to the P7w with it’s inconveniences, but oh so good sound.

 

[RedHotFuzz]

Thought it might be of interest to you guys I took some time to compare the P7W to the Airpods Max today.

The APM have me enamoured, the build, looks and convenience are just so good for someone in the apple ecosystem. So i haven’t listened to much else.

Anyway today I decided to dust of the P7W and compare...Oh dear, a bit of an illusion was lifted. The vocals on the APM never felt quite right, but compared to the P7W it really is drastic. They’re not at all volumous, they sound a distant and lack body. The P7w handle female vocals, for instance on Teardrop, so much better it almost completely changes the song.

It’s one of those things you wish you never did. But i think I’ll have to return my APM now, back to the P7w with it’s inconveniences, but oh so good sound.

I’m glad you posted this as I’d been thinking about selling my P7W and getting the APM. I love the sound and build quality of the P7W but I hate the pressure on the top of my skull. It’s just so uncomfortable after a short period of time. I don’t like the extensive use of fabric on the APM but the integrated iOS conveniences are compelling. Maybe I’ll just stick with the P7W.

 

[tinyman392]

I’m glad you posted this as I’d been thinking about selling my P7W and getting the APM. I love the sound and build quality of the P7W but I hate the pressure on the top of my skull. It’s just so uncomfortable after a short period of time. I don’t like the extensive use of fabric on the APM but the integrated iOS conveniences are compelling. Maybe I’ll just stick with the P7W.

The APM will get rid of the pressure on the top of your skull. Despite it being heavier, it distributes weight a lot more evenly and thus reduces overall physical pressure on the top of the head. The pads are hit or miss, some people don't have issues but with others it may irritate the skin. I still place the P7W and APM in the same tier sound-wise, but the P7W definitely do have an edge on it, the midrange in general plays a great role in that. Though I prefer the APM's bass since it isn't as boomy.

 

[mainguy]

I’m glad you posted this as I’d been thinking about selling my P7W and getting the APM. I love the sound and build quality of the P7W but I hate the pressure on the top of my skull. It’s just so uncomfortable after a short period of time. I don’t like the extensive use of fabric on the APM but the integrated iOS conveniences are compelling. Maybe I’ll just stick with the P7W.

Birds of a feather, big reason I bought APM is P7w becomes uncomfortable for me. APM is insanely comfortable. I think if midrange and vocals aren’t that big of a deal, then APM will suit, they handle instrumentals great. But for me vocals are important, and I just can’t see anyone thinking APM handles vocals well, it’s a large difference imo from the p7w.

I’m going to grab the new PI7 as another portable solution and compare them to APM to see if they can offer sound quality and ANC.

 

[tinyman392]

Birds of a feather, big reason I bought APM is P7w becomes uncomfortable for me. APM is insanely comfortable. I think if midrange and vocals aren’t that big of a deal, then APM will suit, they handle instrumentals great. But for me vocals are important, and I just can’t see anyone thinking APM handles vocals well, it’s a large difference imo from the p7w.

I’m going to grab the new PI7 as another portable solution and compare them to APM to see if they can offer sound quality and ANC.

If your using an iPhone or iPad, try to give Headphone Accommodations a try. Balanced or vocal gives a much needed boost to that area of the spectrum.