Bowers&Wilkins new flagship the P9!
Nov 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM Post #1,411 of 2,022
Anybody can say how well these headphones scale with an amp versus listening to them straight from a laptop/phone?
They're high sensitivity and low impedence so I wonder if there's any difference
 
Nov 12, 2017 at 4:03 PM Post #1,412 of 2,022
A follow-up for anybody that loves the P7W sound and is hoping the P9 improves on that - for me it doesn't and didn't as the mids are much too recessed. The answer is the Fostex Th-X00 which is like an ultra premium P7: super comfy, and OMG the sound ... if you like the P7, get the Th-X00. You can get two pairs and still have $100 left over compared to the P9. I'm not hating on the P9, they just didn't work out for me, but they are very nice.
I found the complete opposite to be my experience. I had the E-MU Teak and the TH-X00 and I got rid of them because the soupy coloration and resonances got into everything I listened to, and the midrange was too soft. The P9 sonically resembles the power and impact one would get for a good set of B&W loudspeakers. Recessed mids? Hardly. But of course it all depends on what you are looking for in a headphone sound. For me, it varies, hence multiple sets on hand. However, I now have much fewer because I nailed down what I didn't like in a headphone sound, and consequently cleaned house.
 
Nov 13, 2017 at 12:15 PM Post #1,413 of 2,022
The P9 sonically resembles the power and impact one would get for a good set of B&W loudspeakers. Recessed mids? Hardly

Well, we all hear what we hear, but the mics appear to hear what I and few others hear - notice the recessed mids (dip between 400 & 1k) vs the P7w passive (wired) as well as the boosted sub-bass.

P9 in light blue (if the graphs were perfectly aligned to scale the dip would look even larger)

ci2eSfQ.png
 
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Nov 13, 2017 at 1:05 PM Post #1,414 of 2,022
Mids are actually elevated on that graph..upper mids are a bit sucked out. But I don't bring graphs to live events in order to get involved with the music and the dynamics and power of same.


Thanks though
 
Nov 13, 2017 at 2:37 PM Post #1,416 of 2,022
I have no idea what this means so I'm going to assume,"I appear to hear different things than others, and what they hear is also measurable"

Gruss, at this point I think we're all aware that you're none too fond of the P9s, and we know why.

Perhaps you would understand my point if I kept posting over and over why I loved my P9s (which I do, but that's beside the point).
 
Nov 13, 2017 at 6:19 PM Post #1,417 of 2,022
I have no idea what this means so I'm going to assume,"I appear to hear different things than others, and what they hear is also measurable"
No, it means enjoy music and stop worrying about how things measure.
 
Nov 15, 2017 at 7:23 AM Post #1,418 of 2,022
A follow-up for anybody that loves the P7W sound and is hoping the P9 improves on that - for me it doesn't and didn't as the mids are much too recessed.

You've posted this numerous times, and I've got to completely disagree with you. If you said that the mids are a bit less emphasized than the lows or highs, maybe called it slightly v shaped, then I'd chalk it up to personal preference or just different ears. But you make it sound like P9 mids are very recessed...when they're not...at all...not even close.

I'm beginning to think that there was an issue with your specific P9...or your set up. Most likely your P9. The P9's powerful bass has proven to be polarizing here on head-fi, but very few have taken issue with the mids or highs.

In comparison to my HE-400i, which are known for having great mids, my P9 mids are still what I consider neutral. Neutral with great detail and a buttery coherency that makes them sound very refined.

Also, the P9 is the first headphone I've owned that absolutely without a doubt need to be burned in for at least 60 hours. Prior to that, the mid/upper bass was a bit much and did at times, depending on the recording, encroach on the mids. After passing that break in period, I've had zero problems with bass intruding or muddying up the mids.
 
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Nov 15, 2017 at 7:50 AM Post #1,419 of 2,022
The P9 sonically resembles the power and impact one would get for a good set of B&W loudspeakers. Recessed mids? Hardly. But of course it all depends on what you are looking for in a headphone sound.

THIS
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 2:51 AM Post #1,420 of 2,022
I'm beginning to think that there was an issue with your specific P9...or your set up. Most likely your P9. The P9's powerful bass has proven to be polarizing here on head-fi, but very few have taken issue with the mids or highs.

There was no issue, many others have noted the same thing, including in this thread; it's how the P9s are for some of us and it's measurable and I posted a graph comparing the P7s to the P9. There are other forums where this quality of the P9s is discussed in great detail with charts and graphs and interactive displays. Well, not that last part, but the other stuff.

There are two things happening: preferences, and biology.

I like the P7s way more than most, and I really like them wired. If it were a car, I'd compare the P7s to the Audi S4: fast, fun, elegant but ... if you like to fear your car, it's just not up to that task. I was hopeful the P9 would be the P7s successor, but B&W went in a different direction with it; the P9 has a totally different sound. The same is true with the B&W PX: it's not the successor to the P7, it's yet another new sound direction.

As for burn-in, I'm not a believer in this sense: I've yet to test any headphone whose sound I didn't like initially where, after burn-in, I liked it. If you like a 'phone sound, it'll get better, but it won't overcome dislikes.

I'm not a P9 hater, it's a beautiful HP with a lot to love, I only posted because I would've liked to have read my posts when I was considering what to get. Too many threads turn into love-it-or-we'll-shout-you-down threads.

Maybe this one has too.
 
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Nov 16, 2017 at 6:19 AM Post #1,421 of 2,022
There was no issue, many others have noted the same thing, including in this thread; it's how the P9s are for some of us and it's measurable and I posted a graph comparing the P7s to the P9. There are other forums where this quality of the P9s is discussed in great detail with charts and graphs and interactive displays. Well, not that last part, but the other stuff.

There are two things happening: preferences, and biology.

I like the P7s way more than most, and I really like them wired. If it were a car, I'd compare the P7s to the Audi S4: fast, fun, elegant but ... if you like to fear your car, it's just not up to that task. I was hopeful the P9 would be the P7s successor, but B&W went in a different direction with it; the P9 has a totally different sound. The same is true with the B&W PX: it's not the successor to the P7, it's yet another new sound direction.

As for burn-in, I'm not a believer in this sense: I've yet to test any headphone whose sound I didn't like initially where, after burn-in, I liked it. If you like a 'phone sound, it'll get better, but it won't overcome dislikes.

I'm not a P9 hater, it's a beautiful HP with a lot to love, I only posted because I would've liked to have read my posts when I was considering what to get. Too many threads turn into love-it-or-we'll-shout-you-down threads.

Maybe this one has too.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. The problem is that every few posts going back several pages of this thread is a post from you stating the same thing over and over. There is no doubt in the mind of anyone reading this thread that you don't like the way the P9 sounds. We get it. The reason you feel "shouted down" is because, after a few pages of it...and well after the point has been made, it starts to get annoying.

Some of your comments come across as hyperbole. You say the P9 is VERY recessed in the mids. That is just not true...unless something is wrong somewhere in the chain. You've also said that the P9 mids are missing. Obviously not true. If you want to be taken seriously, don't exagerrate. If you aren't exagerrating, then something is wrong.

You also say that many others have stated that the P9 mids are very recessed or missing, including in this thread. I don't know about threads discussing this outside of head-fi...I haven't read them. But I do know that only a few people in this thread, including you, have complained about the P9's mids. The vast majority of complaints have been about the level of bass.

I owned the P7W for 8 days before returning them because the ear pad openings were too small for me. Other than that issue, and a soundstage quite a bit more intimate than I prefer, I liked the P7W. For me, the P9 were blatantly better in every way from the very first listen. Susbstantually wider soundstage. Better instrument separation, imaging, and layering. More realistic tonality....the P7's sound slightly metallic in comparison. More clarity, detail, and coherency in the highs and more clarity, detail, and coherency in the mids. Better dynamics and a more refined sound across the board.

The only issue I had, outside of the pads being a bit stiff (all B&W pads are this way), was with the bass. Sub bass was perfect, but mid and upper bass was a bit too much. On some of my music, the mids were being affected...and after spending $900, I didn't like this. But, I decided I'd let them burn in...even though, prior to, I'd never been able to detect any obvious difference in a pair of headphones after "burn in".

I'm not new to this hobby and have owned numerous quality headphones. I know what it sounds like when bass muddies up mids. After about 60 hours, the negative affect the P9 bass was having on the mids in some of my music went away. And no, it wasn't "mental burn in". I listen to my HE-400i almost as much as I listen to my P9's, and if the P9 bass was still misbehaving, it would be blatantly obvious after an extended listen of the same music over the 400i. The bass is still powerful though....full of impact, as bass should be. But it still manages to be very tight, fast, and quite detailed.
 
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Nov 16, 2017 at 9:28 AM Post #1,422 of 2,022
There was no issue, many others have noted the same thing, including in this thread; it's how the P9s are for some of us and it's measurable and I posted a graph comparing the P7s to the P9. There are other forums where this quality of the P9s is discussed in great detail with charts and graphs and interactive displays. Well, not that last part, but the other stuff.

There are two things happening: preferences, and biology.

I like the P7s way more than most, and I really like them wired. If it were a car, I'd compare the P7s to the Audi S4: fast, fun, elegant but ... if you like to fear your car, it's just not up to that task. I was hopeful the P9 would be the P7s successor, but B&W went in a different direction with it; the P9 has a totally different sound. The same is true with the B&W PX: it's not the successor to the P7, it's yet another new sound direction.

As for burn-in, I'm not a believer in this sense: I've yet to test any headphone whose sound I didn't like initially where, after burn-in, I liked it. If you like a 'phone sound, it'll get better, but it won't overcome dislikes.

I'm not a P9 hater, it's a beautiful HP with a lot to love, I only posted because I would've liked to have read my posts when I was considering what to get. Too many threads turn into love-it-or-we'll-shout-you-down threads.

Maybe this one has too.
Fair enough. I think you stated your position and preferences very eloquently. I hear the PR31 pretty much the same as JoePR31 does, but that particular sound does not match your tastes or preferences. And so it goes.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. The problem is that every few posts going back several pages of this thread is a post from you stating the same thing over and over. There is no doubt in the mind of anyone reading this thread that you don't like the way the P9 sounds. We get it. The reason you feel "shouted down" is because, after a few pages of it...and well after the point has been made, it starts to get annoying..
This has been happening a lot here. We can all agree to disagree but some people want to be the last to do it. Maybe the separate listening impressions threads are the way to go, where you comment on what you hear, and the comments are just there for others to gather comparisons. Once the listening impression thread is up and rolling, close the 'preliminary' one down. Sort of like, if you haven't heard it (or owned it for a time), you don't have an opinion.
 
Nov 16, 2017 at 9:49 AM Post #1,423 of 2,022
The reason you feel "shouted down" is because, after a few pages of it...and well after the point has been made, it starts to get annoying.

Good point! Because it's annoying to me that there are 95 pages of p9=awesome prior. Not really, but you get what I"m saying - or maybe you don't, so here's what I'm saying:

If someone wants neutral P9 information, a search brings them here and they have to dig through 95 pages of P9=awesome to find my post(s) ... and that really annoys me, especially when the searcher is me.

What would be really cool is if Head-Fi created Amazon like ratings threads for major products - then you could rate the P9 5 stars, and I could rate it 2 stars, and we could just update our reviews if needed and a search would easily show our stratified results, and then there could be a companion discussion thread (which I probably wouldn't even be in since I'm a 2 starer)

Instead we're stuck in the everything-jumbled thread-world where neutral posts are hard to find.

All of that said, I am really glad you like your P9s, that you support the company (which I really like), and that there's enough of us to support the industry, which gives us the opportunity to argue! (which I probably enjoy more than I should - let's call it a feature :) )

Win-win!
 
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Nov 16, 2017 at 11:56 AM Post #1,424 of 2,022
Just my 2 cents. I found the P9 horribly muddy. I like warm signatures, love the Sony Mdrz1r. I just felt that the P9’s bass bled way too far into the mids. I hope that B&W makes a true flagship (non-portable) model in the future.
 

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