[Sonic Defender]

Beagle's hearing with the P9 sounds like how DavidMahler felt with the ATH-W5000: nasal, honky, and closed-in, or boxy. For me, it took Fitz's mod to make mine a ATH-F5000 and have the bass restored and nasal sound disappear, but finding less powerful amping helped out a bit, as the Audio Technica house sound is usually sensitive and does not require much anping for improvements. The P9, and general B&W house sound, is similar in this regard.

I'm still struggling to understand the relationship? If the amp is more powerful the same power is still used to achieve the same SPL so wouldn't the gain attenuator take care of this? I may just be missing your point still and if so feel free of course to correct me.

 

[Onetwothree]

  For the record, I am not saying the P9 is at all a bad headphone, I am sure it is quite good, but likely at it's best and tuned for music mastered toward what most would associate with audiophile listening (jazz, acoustic, choral, classical). The mid-bass hump is there on the P7 wireless as well so it isn't like the P9 is the only B&W offering to have this signature.
 
I actually find that when you listen to material like Steely Dan, or Fleetwood Mac, Eagles and jazz the mid-bass hump adds a very nice tonality to the music and I can only imagine this would be true with classical and acoustic music. I am sorry if people think that I have suggested the P9 is not a great headphone, it isn't for me as my listening preferences include a great deal of bass intensive music, and for half the price the P7 shares a great deal of the positive sound of the P9, plus in my mind the P7 is truly portable. To be fair, the P7 bass hump can equally become distracting with bass heavy music, but here is the rub, as it costs much less, and is a portable, I can accept that tuning choice with the P7, plus the EQ cut I use helps.
 
I can only speculate, but I think the P9 will really appeal to those who do not listen to techno, or EDM, or other genres where the bass is over-cooked. If you listen to well balanced, well mastered recordings the bass-hump on the P9 may actually be a positive trait if you like some warmth and body in the tonality of your headphone. I also intend to listen again to the P9 for an even longer session at the shop where I tested them as they have a nice portable Denon amp/DAC to try. I don't think it will change things, but I do think with even longer listening than my previous two sessions I will get an even better sense for what the P9 brings to the table.
 
And yes, to reiterate, the P9 should be well driven from something like a smartphone. Now not all smartphones are created equal and some will sound better than others of course. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to suggest that they can and do enjoy the P9 more with say their desktop rig, but that is a sound signature preference rather than simply the P9 needing the power. Two different things in my mind. Anyway, really, for anybody considering the P9 it is essential to hear it for yourself, just like with any headphone. Make sure to order it from a vendor with a return policy you are comfortable with as that can allow you to test for yourself. I don't think the P9 is a mobile headphone personally, but you may feel differently. I actually find the P7 fairly large, but that is me, and I really would feel bad if my comments in anyway caused somebody to feel the P9 isn't worth trying. I'm not so full of myself to presume that, but just in case I did want to reiterate these points.

I was going to write up my impressions of the P9 but I don't think there's a point anymore, you pretty much nailed how I feel about them. With the right tracks they sound marvelous, but with other tracks the bass is too strong and it becomes distracting.
 
I'm struggling whether to keep them though. The build quality is amazing. I was blown away when I opened them. The packaging was top notch and the new car smell coming from the leather was impressive. I was surprised how heavy they were but despite that I found them very comfortable.
 
Compared to my ATH-AD900's and Sennheisers MX280's, these have an extra level of detail that I really enjoy and I'm not sure I'll be satisfied listening to my AD900's now. The Sennheisers MX280's are earbuds and for earbuds they are impressive but only for earbuds and I don't expect a full headphone sound from them. The AD900's have been my main headphones for years and I have been satisfied with them but the P9's have revealed a new level of sound detail.
 
When I listen to a recording I can now hear more of the details in the recording. I can hear the acoustics of the room where the recording happened, I can hear more of the recording effects on voices like reverb, etc. There's a new clarity to the music where I can actually understand lyrics better. The difference between a good recording and a bad recording is also now revealed where before these details were masked.
 
The mid bass hump is distracting though.
 
As far as amping, I've only tried my iPhone 5 and my Pioneer TRE-D1000. The Pioneer D1000 is a wireless headphone dac/amp for movies. It takes a 5.1 Dolby and DTS signal and it converts it to Dolby Headphone virtual surround sound. It works with some wireless infrared headphones and they sound good but there is also a headphone jack. I use my MX980's and AD900's and they sound good but I tried my Apple earbuds and they sound horrible out of the headphone jack. I know Apple earbuds aren't great, they just sound okay out of an iphone but in the D1000 total garbage. I was hoping the P9's with their mid-bass hump would work well for movies but they also sound bad out of the D1000 which I'm writing about because I don't really understand and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on it. I'm using about 50% volume on the D1000 and the sound level is fine but voices sound recessed as if they are coming from really far away and as if they are in a room with bad acoustics. Other sounds just sound muddied. I was really surprised because the P9's sound great out of my iPhone 5.
 
I bought them direct from B&W so I have 60 days to try them out. I'm going to keep enjoying them for another 3 weeks or so, mainly to see if the mid-bass hump really does mellow down. If it doesn't, the question for me becomes, what will I replace them with?
 
The overall sound signature is what I want. What will give me this sound signature without the mid-bass hump? Do those headphones exist?
 
So if I return these, the question becomes, what will offer the same sound signature but without the mid bass hump?

 

[Mikeoscar]

 
I was going to write up my impressions of the P9 but I don't think there's a point anymore, you pretty much nailed how I feel about them. With the right tracks they sound marvelous, but with other tracks the bass is too strong and it becomes distracting.
 
I'm struggling whether to keep them though. The build quality is amazing. I was blown away when I opened them. The packaging was top notch and the new car smell coming from the leather was impressive. I was surprised how heavy they were but despite that I found them very comfortable.
 
Compared to my ATH-AD900's and Sennheisers MX280's, these have an extra level of detail that I really enjoy and I'm not sure I'll be satisfied listening to my AD900's now. The Sennheisers MX280's are earbuds and for earbuds they are impressive but only for earbuds and I don't expect a full headphone sound from them. The AD900's have been my main headphones for years and I have been satisfied with them but the P9's have revealed a new level of sound detail.
 
When I listen to a recording I can now hear more of the details in the recording. I can hear the acoustics of the room where the recording happened, I can hear more of the recording effects on voices like reverb, etc. There's a new clarity to the music where I can actually understand lyrics better. The difference between a good recording and a bad recording is also now revealed where before these details were masked.
 
The mid bass hump is distracting though.
 
As far as amping, I've only tried my iPhone 5 and my Pioneer TRE-D1000. The Pioneer D1000 is a wireless headphone dac/amp for movies. It takes a 5.1 Dolby and DTS signal and it converts it to Dolby Headphone virtual surround sound. It works with some wireless infrared headphones and they sound good but there is also a headphone jack. I use my MX980's and AD900's and they sound good but I tried my Apple earbuds and they sound horrible out of the headphone jack. I know Apple earbuds aren't great, they just sound okay out of an iphone but in the D1000 total garbage. I was hoping the P9's with their mid-bass hump would work well for movies but they also sound bad out of the D1000 which I'm writing about because I don't really understand and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on it. I'm using about 50% volume on the D1000 and the sound level is fine but voices sound recessed as if they are coming from really far away and as if they are in a room with bad acoustics. Other sounds just sound muddied. I was really surprised because the P9's sound great out of my iPhone 5.
 
I bought them direct from B&W so I have 60 days to try them out. I'm going to keep enjoying them for another 3 weeks or so, mainly to see if the mid-bass hump really does mellow down. If it doesn't, the question for me becomes, what will I replace them with?
 
The overall sound signature is what I want. What will give me this sound signature without the mid-bass hump? Do those headphones exist?
 
So if I return these, the question becomes, what will offer the same sound signature but without the mid bass hump?

Did you try equalizing on the basehump yet? Currently I'm experimenting with a -1 or -2 db around the 100hz and that seems to take away many of the negative tendencies. You'll need a 10 band equalizer at minimum, 20 preferred to keep the equalisation as narrow as possible.

 

[Sonic Defender]

@Onetwothree, seems like you have the right approach in trying them longer to be sure. I would try equalizing them to see if you can't mellow out that bass hump a little, but do use a parametric EQ as you can control how adjacent frequencies are effected. As I'm sure you know, EQing done well can really help, but because there is a fair amount of frequency interplay, making larger, or poorly controlled cuts of boosts can actually have unintended consequences.
 
I'm not sure if you use JRiver Media Center, but if you do, it has a built in parametric EQ, but even better I think is the free plugin EQ called EasyQ. I would find the track you feel is the worst and spend some time doing some gentle cuts, experiment with the number of frequencies you work with (I always try to use the least), the Q size of the cut and of course how much gain is cut. One thing I have learned from doing this, and from research is that you don't want to cut too narrowly as that can make the sound un-natural, but of course cutting to broadly is also an issue. Your ear will tell you if it is working for you or not. 
 
I didn't get to experiment with the P9, but if I was going to I would certainly look at frequencies starting at around 90Hz up until about 225Hz. I'm not sure of course which frequencies most contribute to the hump, maybe Beagle has a better idea (or you may already know yourself of course). It would be interesting to get your thoughts on how such EQing worked or didn't.
 
If you weren't strictly requiring a closed headphone and looking for an alternative, the Focal Elear sounds intriguing from everything I've read. I would already own one if I needed an open back design, but it is a closed back I need now. Cheers, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Beagle]

   
I didn't get to experiment with the P9, but if I was going to I would certainly look at frequencies starting at around 90Hz up until about 225Hz. I'm not sure of course which frequencies most contribute to the hump, maybe Beagle has a better idea (or you may already know yourself of course).

 
I would say it's around 150-200hZ. And you affect a lot of things in that area.....male vocals, percussion, strings. That's the place where "boxy" starts to happen.
 
I do have a silver wire aftermarket cable, designed for the B&W phones. I'll give it a try later on today and see if it helps.

 

[ray-dude]

  Damn... You're a man of sparse words 

Reg. 5/2001 and 5 posts, but it seems they count. Thanks for the very informative write up 

 
Just posted the Opus (sorry about the length), including my impressions of the P9.  See: http://www.head-fi.org/t/824351/adventures-of-2-channel-guy-diving-head-first-into-the-head-fi-deep-end#post_12972617

 

[scarfacegt]

How do the p7 wireless sound,compared to the p9? I have the p9.But its to large to use outside.I also have the audeze sine.The sine got fantastic sound.But i like the idea of a wireless portable headphone.Can the p7 be used outside at winter time in could temperatures?

 

[Zaroff]

   
Just posted the Opus (sorry about the length), including my impressions of the P9.  See: http://www.head-fi.org/t/824351/adventures-of-2-channel-guy-diving-head-first-into-the-head-fi-deep-end#post_12972617

 
Very nice write up, and confirms a lot of my impressions with P9. Thanks.

 

[scarfacegt]

Ps:how is the isolation on the p7 wireless?

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
Very nice write up, and confirms a lot of my impressions with P9. Thanks.

Same here, hence why I say that B&W voiced the P9 incorrectly, or at least with not enough balance in the material used to evaluate. There are too many reports of over-done, distracting bass experiences to discount. Seriously B&W, the next time you want to voice a headphone, come to head-fi and get some testers before you arrive at the final production voiced design. The potential in the P9 is quite evident, but equally evident is the misstep with the bass hump. I'm sure it helps on a great deal of material, but it will also be a mess on a great deal of other material. The days of assuming that the audience who will buy a $1000 headphone and only listen to audiophile standard music are long gone. Welcome to the world of brick-walled limited, high energy music.

 

[Sonic Defender]

How do the p7 wireless sound,compared to the p9? I have the p9.But its to large to use outside.I also have the audeze sine.The sine got fantastic sound.But i like the idea of a wireless portable headphone.Can the p7 be used outside at winter time in could temperatures?

For sure the P7 can be used outside in the winter, but I would be careful with really big temperature swings. Picture being outside, minus 15 Celsius, getting into a heated vehicle at much higher temperatures. I would wonder about condensation inside the headphone (I often wonder if they take such things into consideration during engineering). The P7 is quite similar to the P9 I would say. Less refined perhaps, but much less expensive and certainly an actual portable headphone. P7 wireless is a great choice as is the Beoplay H7.

 

[Onetwothree]

   
I would say it's around 150-200hZ. And you affect a lot of things in that area.....male vocals, percussion, strings. That's the place where "boxy" starts to happen.
 
I do have a silver wire aftermarket cable, designed for the B&W phones. I'll give it a try later on today and see if it helps.

I'm using an app called KaiserTone on my iPhone and I'm playing around with the 30 band EQ in the 150-200hz but I'm a newbie, I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm listening to Taylor Swifts 1989 album and I can't really do much to get rid of that thumping bass line. I can only reduce it slightly. Now I'm listening to Mumford & Son's "Sigh No More" album and Wilder Minds and these Albums are responding more to EQ changes but I'm also finding that I'm affecting voices as I try to EQ out that strong thumping bass. I'm listening to Fuel's "Something Like Human" album and without any EQ I'm enjoying the way it sounds, I'm not getting so much of that thumping bass that sometimes seems overpowering. There's a bit there but its not bad. I can't see myself bothering EQing these or any other headphones for that matter though. I think I just want to accept them as they are because I don't want to waste time fiddling around with trying to get them to sound perfectly, at some point I just enjoy the music and I forget about the finer details.
 
Overall I find that they are starting to grow on me. As I listen to them more and more I find that I'm focusing less on their sonic imperfections and instead I'm just enjoying the overall sound. Now I'm thinking of actually keeping them. Maybe we can call it burn in, of the brain variety. I know these aren't perfect but I've never read comments on a pair of headphones that were universally praised either.

 

[quiet listener]

I'm using an app called KaiserTone on my iPhone and I'm playing around with the 30 band EQ in the 150-200hz but I'm a newbie, I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm listening to Taylor Swifts 1989 album and I can't really do much to get rid of that thumping bass line. I can only reduce it slightly. Now I'm listening to Mumford & Son's "Sigh No More" album and Wilder Minds and these Albums are responding more to EQ changes but I'm also finding that I'm affecting voices as I try to EQ out that strong thumping bass. I'm listening to Fuel's "Something Like Human" album and without any EQ I'm enjoying the way it sounds, I'm not getting so much of that thumping bass that sometimes seems overpowering. There's a bit there but its not bad. I can't see myself bothering EQing these or any other headphones for that matter though. I think I just want to accept them as they are because I don't want to waste time fiddling around with trying to get them to sound perfectly, at some point I just enjoy the music and I forget about the finer details.

Overall I find that they are starting to grow on me. As I listen to them more and more I find that I'm focusing less on their sonic imperfections and instead I'm just enjoying the overall sound. Now I'm thinking of actually keeping them. Maybe we can call it burn in, of the brain variety. I know these aren't perfect but I've never read comments on a pair of headphones that were universally praised either.

You can try to pair the P9 with Dragonfly Red or Dragonfly Black on iPhone or laptop, they are tiny (like USB size) and very affordable. I am really loving the sounds coming out of this pairing. And I listen to mostly Scandinavian Metal such as Opeth, Amorphis, etc. and a bit of classical music. They all sound amazing.

 

[Phoebus7]

Has anyone got the chance to compare P9 with Audeze EL8 titanium. If you take the cipher cable out of the equation. Than

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
 
Overall I find that they are starting to grow on me. As I listen to them more and more I find that I'm focusing less on their sonic imperfections and instead I'm just enjoying the overall sound. Now I'm thinking of actually keeping them. Maybe we can call it burn in, of the brain variety. I know these aren't perfect but I've never read comments on a pair of headphones that were universally praised either.

That is awesome to hear! And yes, you will almost never find a perfectly appreciated headphone. Look at the Nighthawk, very polarizing. Anyway, I'm glad that you, and others, are listening to the impressions of others and still finding the P9 works for you. I may have been less than in love with the bass hump, but pretty much everything else was rather nice so I'm not surprised to hear you are liking them. I like the P7 which has a very similar voicing, so imperfect doesn't have to matter, as long as what is right is right for you.