Bowers&Wilkins new flagship the P9!

[Sonic Defender]

Bluetooth is audibly transparent today. Only in extreme situations with a well trained ear could anybody reliably tell apart Bluetooth (implemented properly) when they were doing level matched, multiple trial, blind listening. Bluetooth has not been an issue for several years now. In fact, it is great that big companies are going only Bluetooth, it will advance it even further and who the heck needs cables? They are good for nothing but tripping on (IMO) so if they can be eliminated shouldn't we be celebrating that? I know that I am.

I am quite sure all the boutique cable manufacturers aren't happy and have a vested interest in keeping people believing that Bluetooth is inferior.

 

[plakat]

Bluetooth is audibly transparent today. Only in extreme situations with a well trained ear could anybody reliably tell apart Bluetooth (implemented properly) when they were doing level matched, multiple trial, blind listening. Bluetooth has not been an issue for several years now. In fact, it is great that big companies are going only Bluetooth, it will advance it even further and who the heck needs cables? They are good for nothing but tripping on (IMO) so if they can be eliminated shouldn't we be celebrating that? I know that I am.

I am quite sure all the boutique cable manufacturers aren't happy and have a vested interest in keeping people believing that Bluetooth is inferior.

While I most definitely don’t like that whole cable industry, I do like cabled headphones… yes, for some use cases such as on the go wireless is much easier (while working is another use case), I don’t like that headphones now include electronics that can (and eventually will) fail plus batteries that age. Many manufacturers don’t design their headphones for easy maintenance… and that throw away aspect is what I dislike about Bluetooth headphones. Soundwise I’m happy with a properly implemented AAC codec and decent battery life (for me that means about 12h).

I also don’t like That fact that looking for Bluetooth models restricts me mostly to the consumer end of sound quality spectrum — not because of the connection technology but the target audience of those offerings… P9 being an example of this: their Bluetooth offerings are simpler models as far as I can see. That’s a pity despite the aspects mentioned above.

 

[mainguy]

W… and that throw away aspect is what I dislike about Bluetooth headphones. Soundwise I’m happy with a properly implemented AAC codec and decent battery life (for me that means about 12h).

I also don’t like That fact that looking for Bluetooth models restricts me mostly to the consumer end of sound quality spectrum — not because of the connection technology but the target audience of those offerings… P9 being an example of this: their Bluetooth offerings are simpler models as far as I can see. That’s a pity despite the aspects mentioned above.

Agreed. It's not a problem with bluetooth per se, as sound quality seems to get pretty great on BT these days, especially with some dedicated bluetooth DACs. I tried the audiolabs Nano and it actually sounded better than a straight wired connection with teh P9.

It's more that the bluetooth headphone market sits in a certain band, and undoubtedly companies will focus on battery, connectivity, ANC, apps, etc, which take a bulk of the development cost. I think this explains why the P7 wireless sounds as good as even the £500 airpods max today, SQ isn't moving in that segment as all the sales are driven by features and battery life.

 

[gikigill]

Can you show me some examples of the baffle separating from the cups? Haven't come across anything of that sort.

The headband will need replacing just as most cans do. My pair is one of the first ones and still intact though.

 

[Sonic Defender]

@plakat I totally agree with your point about the risk of waste products, that is one very strong advantage for wired headphones. I cannot argue against that and good on you for introducing it. I do; however, recall that B&O, as one example used to at least make their batteries user replaceable, or at least they did at one time. Not sure if that is still the case. Additionally, most if not all Bluetooth headphones can also be passive so that might help mitigate the waste of active headphones failing.

 

[plakat]

@plakat I totally agree with your point about the risk of waste products, that is one very strong advantage for wired headphones. I cannot argue against that and good on you for introducing it. I do; however, recall that B&O, as one example used to at least make their batteries user replaceable, or at least they did at one time. Not sure if that is still the case. Additionally, most if not all Bluetooth headphones can also be passive so that might help mitigate the waste of active headphones failing.

I try to only buy Bluetooth headphones that are tuned acoustically, i.e. without DSP tricks, so that I could potentially use them of the battery dies and cannot be replaced. Unfortunately some models cannot provide the same sound quality level without active electronics.

 

[Jazz1]

P9 build quality is actually pretty average.
The plastic cups are known to separate from the baffle and the headband padding is pretty flaky too.
Tanks they are not.

I've had my P9's since February 2017. Some mobile use (in the office), but mostly at home.

Other than darkening of the leather components I've not had any issues. Though I recently bought two new ear pads for back-up. I did add a fabric headband cover, about a year ago, for a little more cushion.

Maybe I've been lucky? If I had serious issues with these relatively expensive headphones, I would be very disappointed. But, so far they have held up well.

Heck, my Sennheiser HD-600 & 650's have had the headband "paint" flake off like crazy. But, I still love them!

 

[mainguy]

Crazy in depth review of the P9 uploaded by this guy this month, I like his other reviews so this was interesting and pretty good imo, seems like he's put more effort into testing amp & dac synergy with these than anyone else on the planet. He puts the P9 around clear/arya level but says it requires a huge amount of effort to get them there...echoes my own experience.

I personally rate him quite highly. If you watch his other reviews you'll see he actually keeps headphones for years and spends a lot of time with them. As opposed to 90% of youtube reviewers who get a demo unit in, test the headphone with one or two sources for a week then do a writeup. This guy had the P9s for 4 years lol.
I like that style a lot as it gives a sense of balance, makes one less inclined to novelty or moods, and also more experience with comparable gear.

 

[Jazz1]

Thank you for pointing me to this review of the P9. I kind of thought I was crazy for loving mine so much, until this reviewer laid out the difficulties of appreciating them. His "ConvinceMeAudio" channel name seems even more appropriate with the P9 headphones.

Now that they have been discontinued I feel very happy I took the plunge and purchased these in 2017. For those that will never get to hear these somewhat eclectic headphones, I feel sorry

 

[TooFrank]

@plakat I totally agree with your point about the risk of waste products, that is one very strong advantage for wired headphones. I cannot argue against that and good on you for introducing it. I do; however, recall that B&O, as one example used to at least make their batteries user replaceable, or at least they did at one time. Not sure if that is still the case. Additionally, most if not all Bluetooth headphones can also be passive so that might help mitigate the waste of active headphones failing.

FWIW: I still have the Beoplay H7 BT Headphones with replacable batteries, but to my knowledge that was the only HP where this was implemented.

 

[Sonic Defender]

FWIW: I still have the Beoplay H7 BT Headphones with replacable batteries, but to my knowledge that was the only HP where this was implemented.

I used to also own the B&O H7. I also loved it, but sadly it didn't go quite loud enough so despite absolutely loving the design and the sound I parted ways. Damn EU volume caps.

 

[trellus]

P9 build quality is actually pretty average.
The plastic cups are known to separate from the baffle and the headband padding is pretty flaky too.
Tanks they are not.

I thought I remember reading that the cups were made from "Saffiano leather" treated in a certain manner?

 

[trellus]

Crazy in depth review of the P9 uploaded by this guy this month, I like his other reviews so this was interesting and pretty good imo, seems like he's put more effort into testing amp & dac synergy with these than anyone else on the planet. He puts the P9 around clear/arya level but says it requires a huge amount of effort to get them there...echoes my own experience.

I personally rate him quite highly. If you watch his other reviews you'll see he actually keeps headphones for years and spends a lot of time with them. As opposed to 90% of youtube reviewers who get a demo unit in, test the headphone with one or two sources for a week then do a writeup. This guy had the P9s for 4 years lol.
I like that style a lot as it gives a sense of balance, makes one less inclined to novelty or moods, and also more experience with comparable gear.

It was this very review (and I love his reviews generally) that made me took another look at the possibility of trying to find a used set.

 

[Roderick]

I thought I remember reading that the cups were made from "Saffiano leather" treated in a certain manner?

Earpads are leather. Cups are plastic. I really liked the leather covered cups on p7 so for me P9's build quality feels less premium than p7.

 

[GREQ]

I thought I remember reading that the cups were made from "Saffiano leather" treated in a certain manner?

They're plastic cups wrapped in a 'leather' skin.
Here is one of the few images online showing that particular part of the 'build quality' - https://www.hybridaudio.ru/photo/CID_461.html