Bowers&Wilkins new flagship the P9!

[QueueCumber]

Absolutely, the P9, depending on your preference, sounds fantastic. I personally really enjoyed it. Clearly B&W wasn't attempting to present a linear signature, they went with a bold musical statement that they felt was engaging and special. Much like the Sony did with the Z1R, I like when companies craft a signature and offer us a new interpretation. It has been awhile since I heard the P9, it had been loaned to me by a friend, but I remember really liking it, sometimes it was simply magically, and there were sometimes when the music didn't work and the sound came off as too bassy, but that wasn't constant. I also really liked the styling, rather sharp looking headphone without being gaudy.

That's the unfortunate issue with the P9. They went for the Beats Generation overemphasized bass. For some material with light bass it will present well, but any material with bass emphasis will start to lose mids and trebles to the bass, and any material that was engineered to have exaggerated bass will sound terrible. This is the exact reason why they should have attempted a more neutral response. These could have been exceptional headphones in their price and portability range. The bass can be tuned down with apps on PC like Equalizer APO, but then the portability factor is greatly diminished. I'm hoping they realize this and work out a better tuning for the next flagship release.

 

[Sonic Defender]

That's the unfortunate issue with the P9. They went for the Beats Generation overemphasized bass. For some material with light bass it will present well, but any material with bass emphasis will start to lose mids and trebles to the bass, and any material that was engineered to have exaggerated bass will sound terrible. This is the exact reason why they should have attempted a more neutral response. These could have been exceptional headphones in their price and portability range. The bass can be tuned down with apps on PC like Equalizer APO, but then the portability factor is greatly diminished. I'm hoping they realize this and work out a better tuning for the next flagship release.

Agreed, to a point, but for certain bass heavy music could be portrayed too powerfully with the P9. I know as I listen to electronica quite a bit and yes, it wasn't always a great fit. Saying that, I do imagine some modest equalization cuts in the right places would work wonders and I don't at all think the P9 is a portable regardless of how they may have been marketed. For me, the P9 is just too large, but when I say portable for me that doesn't mean bringing it to the office, anything is portable then, portable for me means out and about, taking public transit, that type of thing. When I use that definition of portable the P9 would only be for the bravest of souls who don't mind a pretty large, and I would think hot after a time, headphone. I find something like the Sony WH 1000XM3 (my current portable) to be about as big as possible, and only viable because it isn't further encumbered by a cable.

 

[Beagle]

That's the unfortunate issue with the P9. They went for the Beats Generation overemphasized bass.

No. They went for the scale and energy you get with larger speakers or at a live performance. But again, as Sonic Defender pointed out, it's a particular sound signature and it's not for everyone.

 

[QueueCumber]

No. They went for the scale and energy you get with larger speakers or at a live performance. But again, as Sonic Defender pointed out, it's a particular sound signature and it's not for everyone.

I have well designed larger speakers and I go to a few concerts a month on average. Nothing about the P9 sound is commensurate with either, IME. *shrug*

 

[GREQ]

The 'problem' (depending on which side of the fence you reside) with the P9 is that the bass finally dips at 500hz, instead of the usual much earlier 200-300hz.
If you dislike the P9, it's likely that any headphone with a smooth bass curve up to 500hz will disappoint you or sound muddy/boomy.
It's also likely that you prefer a frequency curve that shows a dip between 200-300hz, which is somewhat common and often gives a stronger distinction between midrange and bass.
Neither is accurate, it's just your own preference.

This is of course within the context of headphones with 'fun' tuning, not things like high end planars of electrostats with measurably visible 'linearity' from 2000hz all the way down, which are closer to reproducing the audio source accurately (at least in tonality).

 

[Jester0fTortuga]

PSA: I've found someone that seems to do nice, highly customized earpads for any high-end headphones. I've sent them a spare set of P9 pads, with a sketch of what I'd like them to do. Basically, not messing with the plastic base as I assume B&W designed it for a reason (there's a cavity between the base and the upper lip of the base). But! They're going to build something with 5mm clearance to each side on the inside, and expand the outside of the pads by 1cm. Also deepening the overall pad by 1cm. Using memory foam and good leather to match the original color scheme. I'm opting for a perforated microfiber contact surface while I'm at it.

Hoping this all solves the comfort problems for my oversized head! Will let you guys know how it goes and share pictures of the finished product. You guys can see examples of what they do here (note the pads they did for the PX, thats basically what I'm having done): https://vesperaudio.com/earpads?brand=All

 

[Jazz1]

PSA: I've found someone that seems to do nice, highly customized earpads for any high-end headphones. I've sent them a spare set of P9 pads, with a sketch of what I'd like them to do. Basically, not messing with the plastic base as I assume B&W designed it for a reason (there's a cavity between the base and the upper lip of the base). But! They're going to build something with 5mm clearance to each side on the inside, and expand the outside of the pads by 1cm. Also deepening the overall pad by 1cm. Using memory foam and good leather to match the original color scheme. I'm opting for a perforated microfiber contact surface while I'm at it.

Hoping this all solves the comfort problems for my oversized head! Will let you guys know how it goes and share pictures of the finished product. You guys can see examples of what they do here (note the pads they did for the PX, thats basically what I'm having done): https://vesperaudio.com/earpads?brand=All

Very nice! Please let us know how the P9 pads turn out, and if there is any sound change (hopefully an improvement in comfort and perhaps sound). I love my P9’s. I know they seem to get a lot of criticism. But to each his own

 

[Jazz1]

I am wondering if any member of these forums owns both the P9 and the Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon headphones? I’m asking because I own and like the P9, and have the NH Carbons on the way. It is my understanding that both headphones have been discontinued. I just could not pass on the NH Carbons design and God help me, the carry case. To be up front the sale price made it easy to take the chance.

I’ve read every review on both headphones I could find. Some reviews seem to fault both headphones for overly aggressive bass. From what I’m seeing treble on both headphones have been said to be weak. Oddly, while I’m not a bass head I’m wondering if I’m going to like the NH Carbons for similar reasons I like the P9’s? If anyone out there can contrast and compare I would love to hear the good, bad, or MEH opinions.

I guess I’m just a fan of “orphaned” headphones

 

[Jester0fTortuga]

Very nice! Please let us know how the P9 pads turn out, and if there is any sound change (hopefully an improvement in comfort and perhaps sound). I love my P9’s. I know they seem to get a lot of criticism. But to each his own

I'll definitely let you guys know how it goes! I have another day or two to decide on final materials stuff, I'm considering perforating the interior entirely. I've never done this before, but it seems this might be a way to get a tiny little cut to the bass response? Not sure though, I assume the larger space in the pad might boost bass response. I guess we will see! Maybe I'll have to commission a Mk2 version after understanding how Mk1 influences things

 

[Asspirin]

I am wondering if any member of these forums owns both the P9 and the Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon headphones? I’m asking because I own and like the P9, and have the NH Carbons on the way. It is my understanding that both headphones have been discontinued. I just could not pass on the NH Carbons design and God help me, the carry case. To be up front the sale price made it easy to take the chance.

I’ve read every review on both headphones I could find. Some reviews seem to fault both headphones for overly aggressive bass. From what I’m seeing treble on both headphones have been said to be weak. Oddly, while I’m not a bass head I’m wondering if I’m going to like the NH Carbons for similar reasons I like the P9’s? If anyone out there can contrast and compare I would love to hear the good, bad, or MEH opinions.

I guess I’m just a fan of “orphaned” headphones

Nice, the Nighthawks are on my list, too. Can you give us a short comparison once you have them?

The thing is, most "audiophiles" hate enhanced bass. In their opinion, it gets in the way and muffles everything. For most people here, the term "audiophile" is connected with analytical and neutral sound signatures. I'm pretty sure that if you raised the bass frequencies on the HD800 by a couple of decibels, people would call it mid-fi. Let it be so, I don't need to call myself audiophile. I like warm sounding headphones with lively bass impact (that's why I also like the P9). My hearing is quite good, so I also have no need for enhanced treble frequencies. So yeah, seems you and I fall in the category of people liking rather "musical" than "analytical" headphones. Nothing odd about that

 

[Jazz1]

Nice, the Nighthawks are on my list, too. Can you give us a short comparison once you have them?

The thing is, most "audiophiles" hate enhanced bass. In their opinion, it gets in the way and muffles everything. For most people here, the term "audiophile" is connected with analytical and neutral sound signatures. I'm pretty sure that if you raised the bass frequencies on the HD800 by a couple of decibels, people would call it mid-fi. Let it be so, I don't need to call myself audiophile. I like warm sounding headphones with lively bass impact (that's why I also like the P9). My hearing is quite good, so I also have no need for enhanced treble frequencies. So yeah, seems you and I fall in the category of people liking rather "musical" than "analytical" headphones. Nothing odd about that

I will certainly do my best to do a comparison and report back here. I may throw in my LCD-2 and Senn. HD-650 for good measure. Not so much because I’m any kind of an expert, but feedback from forum members helps me better define what I like, and perhaps where I should be going with with this great hobby.

I always thought what kept me from being a true audiophile was $$$$, but as you point out perhaps it is I’m more into less analytical headphone sound. Easy to say since I started out with Koss Pro 4 AAA’s at a college radio station many years ago (see my Jazz1 icon) .

 

[Audio Aficionado]

Just wanted to chime in here,- I own the older Audioquest Nighthawk (the one with the wooden cups) but i've never heard the Nighthawk Carbon, however FWIW in my humble opinion the Nighthawk (the one I own - the one with the wooden cups) is absolutely no match for the B&W P9..the most notable improvements are that the bass of the P9 is ALLOT more defined compared to that of the Nighthawk. The high frequencies of the P9 are also more defined and the Nighthawk has some sibilance compared to the P9. The P9 has that very 3 dimensional "speakers in a room" kind of sound stage whereas the Nighthawk sound stage is completely flat/horizontal in comparison. I have not heard the Nighthawk carbon, maybe it is an upgrade to the older Nighthawk with the wooden cups, hopefully it will be. I just wanted to offer some insight.

 

[Jazz1]

Just wanted to chime in here,- I own the older Audioquest Nighthawk (the one with the wooden cups) but i've never heard the Nighthawk Carbon, however FWIW in my humble opinion the Nighthawk (the one I own - the one with the wooden cups) is absolutely no match for the B&W P9..the most notable improvements are that the bass of the P9 is ALLOT more defined compared to that of the Nighthawk. The high frequencies of the P9 are also more defined and the Nighthawk has some sibilance compared to the P9. The P9 has that very 3 dimensional "speakers in a room" kind of sound stage whereas the Nighthawk sound stage is completely flat/horizontal in comparison. I have not heard the Nighthawk carbon, maybe it is an upgrade to the older Nighthawk with the wooden cups, hopefully it will be. I just wanted to offer some insight.

Thanks for the comparison! I do love my P9's. I'll give the NH Carbon's a try as they are on the way. From what I've read online the any improvements between the NH and NH Carbons are minimal. So maybe the P9's will win out after all is said and done. Soundstage is very important to me. So if the NH Carbons are lacking that will be a strike against them (as you pointed out in your helpful response).

I just wish the ear cups on the P9's were a bit larger. I do get a bit of a pinch even with my smallish ears. I guess B&W wanted to keep them down in size for ease of transport. I'm looking into some custom ones that someone mentions on these forums. No way am I giving up the P9's, er well until there are some P10's

One side benefit is in looking into the NH Carbons it has made me dig out my AudioQuest DragonFly for mobile use. I usually am sequestered in home office and use a PS Audio and Musical Fidelity headphone DAC and amplifier. I really haven't given the P9's a shot with my 2018 iPad Pro or even my Xs iPhone for travel or coffee shop runs. I will of course also try the NH Carbons.

 

[Audio Aficionado]

Thanks for the comparison! I do love my P9's. I'll give the NH Carbon's a try as they are on the way. From what I've read online the any improvements between the NH and NH Carbons are minimal. So maybe the P9's will win out after all is said and done. Soundstage is very important to me. So if the NH Carbons are lacking that will be a strike against them (as you pointed out in your helpful response).

I just wish the ear cups on the P9's were a bit larger. I do get a bit of a pinch even with my smallish ears. I guess B&W wanted to keep them down in size for ease of transport. I'm looking into some custom ones that someone mentions on these forums. No way am I giving up the P9's, er well until there are some P10's

One side benefit is in looking into the NH Carbons it has made me dig out my AudioQuest DragonFly for mobile use. I usually am sequestered in home office and use a PS Audio and Musical Fidelity headphone DAC and amplifier. I really haven't given the P9's a shot with my 2018 iPad Pro or even my Xs iPhone for travel or coffee shop runs. I will of course also try the NH Carbons.

No problem. The Nighthawk is by no means a bad headphone, it's just that in my opinion, from what I can hear, it doesn't come close to the P9.
I've had no problem with comfort of the P9's earpads so far, I find them very comfortable, but after a few hours the headband can start to hurt the top of my head a little. That's the only negative thing I can say about the P9. I'm willing to put up with it though because of how highly I rate the sound of this headphone.
I have the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red I use with my computer and have tried the P9 with it, I think the P9 sounds exceptionally clear, detailed and extremely accurate with it, but i've recently been using a small usb powered amp called the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2 which also doubles as an input source for microphones and guitars/digital piano's, it's around the same price as the Dragonfly and sounds pretty decent too. I really don't think the P9 needs an amp with lots of power to sound it's best, because it's only 22 ohm's, but I do plan on buying one soon, just in case.

 

[Jazz1]

No problem. The Nighthawk is by no means a bad headphone, it's just that in my opinion, from what I can hear, it doesn't come close to the P9.
I've had no problem with comfort of the P9's earpads so far, I find them very comfortable, but after a few hours the headband can start to hurt the top of my head a little. That's the only negative thing I can say about the P9. I'm willing to put up with it though because of how highly I rate the sound of this headphone.
I have the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red I use with my computer and have tried the P9 with it, I think the P9 sounds exceptionally clear, detailed and extremely accurate with it, but i've recently been using a small usb powered amp called the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2 which also doubles as an input source for microphones and guitars/digital piano's, it's around the same price as the Dragonfly and sounds pretty decent too. I really don't think the P9 needs an amp with lots of power to sound it's best, because it's only 22 ohm's, but I do plan on buying one soon, just in case.

I do have the B&W Lightening connector cable. I did use that, but the 2018 iPad Pro has gone to USB-C. I contacted B&W, but it seems they have no plans to update to USB-C (of course they probably knew the P9 was going to be discontinued). I liked the Lightening connector cable because doesn't hang of the iPad like the AudioQuest Firefly with the Apple dongle. I had forgotten how expensive the Firefly is BTW.

Off my own topic. The Audioquest Firefly sounds great with the Apple multi-port dongle. The volume level of the iPad. Ed’s to be dialed back to two or three bars or you will blow your ears out!

I just don’t like all the stuff hanging of the iPad’s USB-C port. I wonder if the Hyperdrive dongle would work better, and give relief from the “Hanging Gardens of Babylon” arrangement?