[polymathic]

I'm saying, while APM, APP2, XM5 have the best objective ANC performance, people don't realise that 'the best' vs '2nd place ANC' isn't a whole lot of difference at present.

But if you got someone to sit down, listen to mid level ambient tunes and get some work done in a cafe with APM/XM5, and then had them do the same thing with Bathys/PX8/MW75, i'd wager they wouldn't notice a practical difference in their experience. Sound would still completely overpower ambient sound.

I like silence sometimes, and my ANC headphones are there to provide it. With no music playing, in my experience there is a HUGE difference with APM, APP2, Bose and Sony being in an entirely different league than Bathys, ML 5909, H95, Aonic 50, and B&W. With my hood range on high and a the dryer running, there is absolute silence with APM and APP2, whereas I hear everything with Bathys and ML 5909, just a little less loudly.

 

[angelom]

Mate that's not what I was saying, it's all good as I think english is your 2nd language, or perhaps my post was a bit poor at getting the point across.

I understand your post perfectly.

I'm saying, while APM, APP2, XM5 have the best objective ANC performance, people don't realise that 'the best' vs '2nd place ANC' isn't a whole lot of difference at present. Competitors have caught up and now most premium buds and over ears offer good enough ANC that I'd wager most people wouldn't notice a practical difference between 1st & 2nd tier ANC cans day to day. Side by side consciously looking for details? Sure.

Is still a BIG difference in ANC performance between APM, XM5, APP2, etc, and the others you're mentioning.

In your post before you saying "there are tons of other headphones with maybe 10% worse ANC, which is negligible in the grand scheme." and "people hugely exaggerate the difference in ANC performance". I'm sorry but I think is you that is exaggerating, but in the opposite way, the differences in ANC. You're saying is "negligible", "10%", when in fact is a BIG difference, and exaggerating when you're saying how many headphones today offer this "negligible" difference. You're using words like "10%", "negligible" and "a ton".

But if you got someone to sit down, listen to mid level ambient tunes and get some work done in a cafe with APM/XM5, and then had them do the same thing with Bathys/PX8/MW75, i'd wager they wouldn't notice a practical difference in their experience. Sound would still completely overpower ambient sound.

Sitting in loud cafe, a bar in the airport, cafeteria in airport, inside the airplane or underground, etc, I can hearing a difference that is many more big than 10% and that isn't, in fact, negligible. 10% is very small difference, true, and is negligible, but this is not, in fact, the case in reality.

I mentioning the variables already before. And for some people (I don't know exactly percentage) the more bad ANC headphones isn't a problem. Some people, for example, complaining that h95 and 5909 don't have sufficient volume when in max vol position. For this people is very probably that any ANC headphone is perfect, or maybe even just NO ANC at all and they're happy with only passive isolation. But for many people that, for example, thinking the max volume in h95 and 5909 isn't a problem and that don't listening usually at loud volumes to music, music that isn't busy all the time (with percussion and singing and/or electric guitars) and listening to podcasts too, then this is a very different story where top ANC headphones and earphones can making a big difference.

 

[vincenz]

I don’t have use cases for ANC myself, but I’d take the sound quality of B&W and the like versus Sony for any perceived better ANC any day of the week. Sony sound quality is bad enough to me that I would not consider it even if it had 2x better ANC. If I am that bothered by any slight noise, then I have bigger problems than my headphones, imo. I’d rather listen to higher sound quality with the slightest bit of noise than listen to a Sony or Bose in “utter silence.”

In any case, I don’t think any modern ANC of today would be lacking enough for it to matter unless you’re some kind of ANC engineer debating the nuances. To say anything of the sort from an everyday use case perspective is grasping at straws. Or stirring the pot.

 

[TheOnetoWin]

I understand your post perfectly.



Is still a BIG difference in ANC performance between APM, XM5, APP2, etc, and the others you're mentioning.

In your post before you saying "there are tons of other headphones with maybe 10% worse ANC, which is negligible in the grand scheme." and "people hugely exaggerate the difference in ANC performance". I'm sorry but I think is you that is exaggerating, but in the opposite way, the differences in ANC. You're saying is "negligible", "10%", when in fact is a BIG difference, and exaggerating when you're saying how many headphones today offer this "negligible" difference. You're using words like "10%", "negligible" and "a ton".



Sitting in loud cafe, a bar in the airport, cafeteria in airport, inside the airplane or underground, etc, I can hearing a difference that is many more big than 10% and that isn't, in fact, negligible. 10% is very small difference, true, and is negligible, but this is not, in fact, the case in reality.

I mentioning the variables already before. And for some people (I don't know exactly percentage) the more bad ANC headphones isn't a problem. Some people, for example, complaining that h95 and 5909 don't have sufficient volume when in max vol position. For this people is very probably that any ANC headphone is perfect, or maybe even just NO ANC at all and they're happy with only passive isolation. But for many people that, for example, thinking the max volume in h95 and 5909 isn't a problem and that don't listening usually at loud volumes to music, music that isn't busy all the time (with percussion and singing and/or electric guitars) and listening to podcasts too, then this is a very different story where top ANC headphones and earphones can making a big difference.

Great post. I actually ordered the Sony's because of what you mentioned in your last post. I listen to my music at low volumes for the most part, and even the H95's sound amazing, I can't take hearing so much ambiance while using the cans when traveling (using the bus, subway in NYC, etc.). I'd happily sacrifice sound quality to get that more isolated experience, but that's just me.

 

[jadenh]

My PX8 just arrived today, and I did some comparison between this and the half-priced Sennheiser Momentum 4 and my desktop gear (Abyss AB1266 Phi TC). I understand now why people said PX8 sounded "fun", which is probably not a good word for those that prefer more balanced and analytical sound. To my ears, I have to say I'm really surprised by PX8's boomy sound signature: IMHO it's too warm and overshadows some of the instrument details / textures compared with the other two I mentioned. It became more evident when I played Snarky Puppy's intricate Shofukan back and forth through these headphones:



I also tried some EDMs, e.g. Tiesto's Boom (definitely intentional ), the beats became a bit too overwhelming for me, which made the drops less exciting:



Besides sound, I had some issues with the wear sensor, it took quite a bit of time to respond to my actions, and would sometimes pause or unpause music randomly as I tilt my head, regardless of sensitivity levels. I'm not sure if it was because I have a defective pair, or it was some bugs that can be improved by subsequent firmware updates.

I don't think I'll be keeping the PX8, which is really a shame because it's probably one of the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. I haven't spent time testing ANC and mic though so can't comment on that.

 

[nunomeneses]

A B&W headphone boomy? Hummmmy

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

So I'm listening to the Momentum 4 and comparing to PX7 s2, they are like complete opposites, the M4 emphasize sub bass while PX7 mid bass, the M4 emphasize upper mids and the PX7 lower mids, M4 emphasize lower treble and PX7 upper treble. I like bits of both and neither are really my preferred style of neutral sound, I can't say one is better than the other. I'm going to go with M4 because it has much less cabin pressure with ANC and the 60hr battery life. I wish I could find a wireless ANC headphone that sounds like my HD800S hahaha.

 

[angelom]

Great post. I actually ordered the Sony's because of what you mentioned in your last post. I listen to my music at low volumes for the most part, and even the H95's sound amazing, I can't take hearing so much ambiance while using the cans when traveling (using the bus, subway in NYC, etc.). I'd happily sacrifice sound quality to get that more isolated experience, but that's just me.

The good thing too about the Sony ANC headphones is that even if you don't like the sound (I don't, but only trying XM3 and XM4 and not XM5) is that the EQ in the app is very good, better than the EQ in the apps of h95, px8, Bathys, 5909, Bose, etc., and this is helping making the sound more tolerable in noisy places.

BUT, one problem for me, specifically, with Bose, Sony, AirPods Max and many others headphones, is that if the earpads aren't real leather, my ears getting hot and/or sweating very quickly and this is one reason I'm very happy now with the new APP 2 for travelling, that having same, or even little better ANC than Sony XM3 and XM4 or Bose QC35 and NC700, AND the APP 2 having really very good sound quality, and of course is perfect (in size) for travelling, with bonus of excellent spatial audio (with iPhone) for podcasts and films.

I wish I could find a wireless ANC headphone that sounds like my HD800S hahaha.

If is possible for you, maybe you can trying ML 5909 in a shop. This is the only ANC headphone, I think, that can giving you more close tonal balance (but is still not the same) than hd800.

 

[jadenh]

BUT, one problem for me, specifically, with Bose, Sony, AirPods Max and many others headphones, is that if the earpads aren't real leather, my ears getting hot and/or sweating very quickly and this is one reason I'm very happy now with the new APP 2 for travelling, that having same, or even little better ANC than Sony XM3 and XM4 or Bose QC35 and NC700, AND the APP 2 having really very good sound quality, and of course is perfect (in size) for travelling, with bonus of excellent spatial audio (with iPhone) for podcasts and films.

Agree on the hot ear problem! I normally avoid real leather in products, but PX8 made me realize synthetic leather is not breathable and is directly responsible for heat dissipation problems. I might consider exploring fabric earpads (like those for APM) next time.

APP 2 also really surprised me with its ANC capability and the sound quality as earbuds. It sounded a bit like open-back (thanks to computational audio?) and even beat some of the more expensive IEMs I've tried before. Definitely recommend for traveling if one's invested in the Apple ecosystem. TBH I grabbed the Senn M4 for traveling primarily because I carry a Walkman with me and I dislike the XM5 sound; M4's ANC pales in comparison with APP2.

 

[angelom]

Price is 799€ / £699 and colour is midnight blue and not black or tan.

 

[Denkmal]

Price is 799€ / £699 and colour is midnight blue and not black or tan.

I would like a pair of midnight blue Px8. But no way in hell I’m walking around with 007 engraved on my earcups…

 

[Nyeh]

I would like a pair of midnight blue Px8. But no way in hell I’m walking around with 007 engraved on my earcups…

doesn't actually look all that obvious I think. At least, most people won't be able to see it when you're wearing the headphones

 

[Denkmal]

doesn't actually look all that obvious I think. At least, most people won't be able to see it when you're wearing the headphones

Sure it is rather discreet. But paying a premium for that is not for me.
Still trying to get my hands on a pair of black ones though.

 

[Gweeds]

£100 extra for that? Nope.

 

[Nyeh]

Not a big Bond fan so I don't care for it either. Colour is nice though; I hope they launch the midnight blue without all the branding, but that's probably never going to happen