Bowers and Wilkins PX8 Wireless Discussion

Dec 8, 2024 at 1:53 PM Post #5,656 of 5,843
Oh it will flex alright :wink: small QC issues :relaxed: Hmmm
We have, at this point, clearly understood your aversion towards this particular headphone. It is never fun to realise your usage pattern didn’t fit the product.

If you take five minutes and google “focal snapping headband”, “Sony Xm yoke break” or why not “Hifiman QC disaster” you will realise that Bowers & Wilkins is quite alright.
 
Dec 8, 2024 at 3:02 PM Post #5,657 of 5,843
We have, at this point, clearly understood your aversion towards this particular headphone. It is never fun to realise your usage pattern didn’t fit the product.

If you take five minutes and google “focal snapping headband”, “Sony Xm yoke break” or why not “Hifiman QC disaster” you will realise that Bowers & Wilkins is quite alright.
My usage pattern was light indoors home use only, I believe any headphone should stand up to that scrutiny. It was kind of there product that didn't fit my usage pattern. Stop defending inferior QC. I don't need to google other defect products unless I intend to purchase them. As they say two wrongs don't make a right. I have no issue with the product other than the QC. I also don't thinK it's the greatest sounding wireless Headphone i have heard but it basically did what it said on the tin.
 
Dec 8, 2024 at 3:13 PM Post #5,658 of 5,843
My usage pattern was light indoors home use only, I believe any headphone should stand up to that scrutiny. It was kind of there product that didn't fit my usage pattern. Stop defending inferior QC. I don't need to google other defect products unless I intend to purchase them. As they say two wrongs don't make a right. I have no issue with the product other than the QC. I also don't thinK it's the greatest sounding wireless Headphone i have heard but it basically did what it said on the tin.
What you are referring to as ”QC” has nothing to do with quality control. B&W overall seem to do well here. The headband issue is a design flaw and a pretty dumb one at that. But it is such a small thing compared to the issues many other manufacturers have, where the device simply cannot be fixed. Some perspective is always good.

As for the sound and performance, well I too have owned and still own multiple headphones that sound better than PX8. I just don’t see how your statement about sound is relevant in relation to your endless crusade about a tiny headband issue.
 
Dec 8, 2024 at 9:02 PM Post #5,659 of 5,843
What you are referring to as ”QC” has nothing to do with quality control. B&W overall seem to do well here. The headband issue is a design flaw and a pretty dumb one at that. But it is such a small thing compared to the issues many other manufacturers have, where the device simply cannot be fixed. Some perspective is always good.

As for the sound and performance, well I too have owned and still own multiple headphones that sound better than PX8. I just don’t see how your statement about sound is relevant in relation to your endless crusade about a tiny headband issue.
QC has nothing to do with quality control? The headband issue is both a design and quality issue. Amendments should have been made to later production runs to rectify the issues, it seems they were not. I and many others don't consider it a small thing. I also think B&W should have acknowldged the issue and offered reassurances. Basic polite customer service.
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 1:30 AM Post #5,660 of 5,843
QC has nothing to do with quality control?
read my post again. QC is quality control but that is not the issue here.

By the way, which headphone DO you use and recommend instead now? I can see that 98% of your posts on this forum is in this thread and 100% of them are trashing the headband. None of them refer to any of the other characteristics of the headphone.
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 7:01 AM Post #5,661 of 5,843
read my post again. QC is quality control but that is not the issue here.

By the way, which headphone DO you use and recommend instead now? I can see that 98% of your posts on this forum is in this thread and 100% of them are trashing the headband. None of them refer to any of the other characteristics of the headphone.
read my post again. QC is quality control but that is not the issue here.

By the way, which headphone DO you use and recommend instead now? I can see that 98% of your posts on this forum is in this thread and 100% of them are trashing the headband. None of them refer to any of the other characteristics of the headphone.
I completely disagree, Quality Control is surely part of the issue, as the necessary production adjustment/amendment's have obviously not been made by B&W over a long period of time. By the way I am a department manager in a large production facility, so have quite a lot of knowledge on production related issues including QC all be it in a completely different field. If you have taken the time to calculate my percentage of posts on this issue then surely you will have read the post previously where I was asked a similar question. I stated that I had decided to go down a different route now after persevering with the PX8 for a good while before getting frustrated. I also mentioned the gear I had swapped out for. I am not totally against B&W I tried there formation speakers which were pretty good but ultimately thought they were too expensive for what the offered, and went with Buchardt A500 actives instead. Which I am delighted with. Buchardt - Now there's a company that really knows about customer service. Also I have been thinking about your statement that the headband is fundamentally a design flaw, I am now slightly draw to the side where it may actually not be. My reasoning is that in many cases (a lot more than the failures) It is perfectly adequate and does not come unglued. So again this would suggest more of an issue with tooling, materials, production techniques or workmanship. I'm not part of there manufacturing facility so cannot conclude but i would be highly surprised if someone at the B&W facility did not know. Thanks for the conversation and your opinion but we continue to disagree.
 
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Dec 9, 2024 at 7:02 AM Post #5,662 of 5,843
Yeah maybe, there's some small QC issues with the PX8 I have as well. The headband is creased when not on the head and when I adjust the right side it's not smooth whereas the left side is.

Sound wise with some songs it's almost like switching from AM to FM when going from the PX8 to the SM4's. I've found it's especially noticeable with this song which sounds good on the Sennheiser but muddy on the PX8


Ok, I am listening to Kodama 20syl on my Px8s as I type this, using Spotify very high quality setting with the Px8s in ANC mode via bluetooth off my MacBook Air (AAC protocol).

As usual with these headphones, they don't like to be soft. I need at least 6/16 on the MacBook volume for the track to come alive. At this volume I can hear all the little details easily, and don't hear any muddiness? The sound is filling my ears from far left to far right, and I can hear all the little synth effects, as well as the two female voices intertwining each other. I don't think I'm missing anything?

If this track really sounds muddy for you, try EQing down the bass (I'm using -2dB right now but it could drop a little more for better balance in bass heavy pop). Or else you do indeed have something wrong with your pair of Px8.
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 7:17 AM Post #5,663 of 5,843
Ok, I am listening to Kodama 20syl on my Px8s as I type this, using Spotify very high quality setting with the Px8s in ANC mode via bluetooth off my MacBook Air (AAC protocol).

As usual with these headphones, they don't like to be soft. I need at least 6/16 on the MacBook volume for the track to come alive. At this volume I can hear all the little details easily, and don't hear any muddiness? The sound is filling my ears from far left to far right, and I can hear all the little synth effects, as well as the two female voices intertwining each other. I don't think I'm missing anything?

If this track really sounds muddy for you, try EQing down the bass (I'm using -2dB right now but it could drop a little more for better balance in bass heavy pop). Or else you do indeed have something wrong with your pair of Px8.
That can also be a slight problem for some, not everyone likes high volume.
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 7:21 AM Post #5,664 of 5,843
That can also be a slight problem for some, not everyone likes high volume.
Oh, you're right there. I'm usually one of those people which is probably why I mention the volume (not many people reviewing the Px8s make this complaint I see, and a few even say they won't get loud enough which is unbelievable to me).

Saying that, I was using 6/16 volume while sitting in a quite noisy Starbucks so it might have been OK with 5/16 listening at home in silence.


Edit: I do find the amount of variation in opinions on these headphones quite intriguing... Are we hearing such different things primarily because of head shape, ear shape and the quality of the over-ear seal?
 
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Dec 9, 2024 at 7:48 AM Post #5,665 of 5,843
Oh, you're right there. I'm usually one of those people which is probably why I mention the volume (not many people reviewing the Px8s make this complaint I see, and a few even say they won't get loud enough which is unbelievable to me).

Saying that, I was using 6/16 volume while sitting in a quite noisy Starbucks so it might have been OK with 5/16 listening at home in silence.


Edit: I do find the amount of variation in opinions on these headphones quite intriguing... Are we hearing such different things primarily because of head shape, ear shape and the quality of the over-ear seal?
Agree with you, I do see it as another flaw that you have to crank them to get the best from them. I'm not a huge fan of EQ but will use it it in moderation. The PX8 is what it is, by no means a bad headphone but definitely has its signature sound which results in a slightly bloated bass. This is obviously subjective as that suits some people whilst some prefer more clarity. For a potter about headphone it isn't bad, for home listening I prefer more clarity. For pottering/travel i now prefer a smaller form factor.
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 7:58 AM Post #5,666 of 5,843
In my opinion it all depends hugely on your favoured types of music.

For example, pop music with the tendency to have synth bass could indeed be overbearing with B&Ws default bass, but large scale orchestral music (e.g. Mahler, Bruckner symphonies) have relatively soft bass compared to the volume of higher pitched instruments. Having a bit more oomph from the double basses and low brass is absolutely fine. If the double bass players in reality could get more volume out of their instruments they would definitely do so in the climax of a Mahler symphony :D

Similarly, I love listening to string quartets and the truth is that the entire Px8 raised bass curve is completely irrelevant.

Of course, something with powerful synth bass can sound overpowered, but there are plenty of fun modern tracks where the extra bass is a bonus. I was listening to a selection of Kpop yesterday and didn't once feel the need to reduce the bass EQ below the -2dB I have it set to.

Another silly example: I like to use The Prodigy to test out hifi systems. Smack/Breathe from Fat of the Land is really fun to examine bass output (I remember how much I struggled to place my Rel subwoofer using this among other things years ago). I find that it sounds very good on the Px8s. I don't detect any bloat there, just good solid and crisp bass.


Do you have an example of the type of music you listen to where bass bloat is a significant problem?
 
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Dec 9, 2024 at 8:03 AM Post #5,667 of 5,843
In my opinion it all depends hugely on your favoured types of music.

For example, pop music with the tendency to have synth bass could indeed be overbearing with B&Ws default bass, but large scale orchestral music (e.g. Mahler, Bruckner symphonies) have relatively soft bass compared to the volume of higher pitched instruments. Having a bit more oomph from the double basses and low brass is absolutely fine. If the double bass players in reality could get more volume out of their instruments they would definitely do so in the climax of a Mahler symphony :D

Similarly, I love listening to string quartets and the truth is that the entire Px8 raised bass curve is completely irrelevant.

Of course, something with powerful synth bass can sound overpowered, but there are plenty of fun modern tracks where the extra bass is a bonus. I was listening to a selection of Kpop yesterday and didn't once feel the need to reduce the bass EQ below the -2dB I have it set to.

Another silly example: I like to use The Prodigy to test out hifi systems. Breathe from Fat of the Land is really fun to examine bass output (I remember how much I struggled to place my Rel subwoofer using this among other things years ago). I find that it sounds very good on the Px8s. I don't detect any bloat there, just good solid and crisp bass.


Do you have an example of the type of music you listen to where bass bloat is a significant problem?
I think you answered your own question with the -2db bass adjustment, but agree with you on the type of music you prefer.
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 8:18 AM Post #5,668 of 5,843
I think you answered your own question with the -2db bass adjustment, but agree with you on the type of music you prefer.
According to the SoundGuys frequency response plot (which was probably from firmware 1.0, not 3.0 so the bass may be a bit lower than shown here), -2dB is really not enough:

1733750285781.png
 
Dec 9, 2024 at 9:29 AM Post #5,669 of 5,843
Edit: I do find the amount of variation in opinions on these headphones quite intriguing... Are we hearing such different things primarily because of head shape, ear shape and the quality of the over-ear seal?
I have a number of headphones, ranging from the warm PX8 to the quite bright and very detailed Hifiman Arya Stealth - a headphone that sounds awesome on low or high volume, but sometimes a bit overbearing in the treble on certain types of music. For this I can EQ. And I enjoy them very much with our without EQ. They are super wide, paint a large soundstage and provide details and sparkle that a closed back ANC headphones only can dream of.
I also love the PX8, but for completely different reasons. With its warm mids and rolled off treble, it is excellent with poor masters, or music that sounds too thin on the Hifimans. And they punch way above its weight and price bracket in sheer P.R.a.T. They are fun and have a great drive as a rock n roll headphone. Zeppelin seldom sounds this good. The weakness of this sound signature is that it kind of lures you to turn the volume up, to get a little more detail. If I do that with a bright headphone my ears hurt.
 
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Dec 9, 2024 at 10:34 AM Post #5,670 of 5,843
In my opinion it all depends hugely on your favoured types of music.

For example, pop music with the tendency to have synth bass could indeed be overbearing with B&Ws default bass, but large scale orchestral music (e.g. Mahler, Bruckner symphonies) have relatively soft bass compared to the volume of higher pitched instruments. Having a bit more oomph from the double basses and low brass is absolutely fine. If the double bass players in reality could get more volume out of their instruments they would definitely do so in the climax of a Mahler symphony :D

Similarly, I love listening to string quartets and the truth is that the entire Px8 raised bass curve is completely irrelevant.

Of course, something with powerful synth bass can sound overpowered, but there are plenty of fun modern tracks where the extra bass is a bonus. I was listening to a selection of Kpop yesterday and didn't once feel the need to reduce the bass EQ below the -2dB I have it set to.

Another silly example: I like to use The Prodigy to test out hifi systems. Smack/Breathe from Fat of the Land is really fun to examine bass output (I remember how much I struggled to place my Rel subwoofer using this among other things years ago). I find that it sounds very good on the Px8s. I don't detect any bloat there, just good solid and crisp bass.


Do you have an example of the type of music you listen to where bass bloat is a significant problem?
Acoustic jazz. A jazz trio for example or a small quartet or quintet. Double bass in a proper recording sounds bloated and excessive on the PX8 without EQ. Gets in the way of mids and transparency. In my case -3.5 on the bass slider.
 
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