[IcarusEight2]

re: bluetooth compression, a lot of people don't realize that the spec for Bluetooth allows for *uncompressed* audio, as long as both the source and the destination support the same codec. The Bowers & Wilkins P5 and P7 wireless supports AAC so any audio streamed from an Apple device will be superior to a device that simply chooses to go w/ AptX (presumably any Android phone).

BTW I own both the P5 and P7 wireless and listened to the QC 35's yesterday in a Bose store. The QC 35 signature is much better than previous versions as it was harder to just hear the "hiss" that is apparent with noise cancellation. They're excellent when you want to drown out everything, loud sounds that an over ear headphone may not. That said, I still prefer the Bowers & Wilkins products. Their sound signature is warmer & livelier than Bose's and it's hard not to compare build quality. Bose always has a crappy plastic look, whereas Bowers & Wilkins has finesse.

Not that I doubt you, but what's your source on the P7 supporting AAC? I haven't been able to find that anywhere. And when I connect to my iMac, the headphones are using SBC or I can force them to use aptX. But I haven't found an AAC option.

 

[GrussGott]

cross-post:
 
I'm going to compare the Sony's, the bose, the wireless P7s, and the PSBs.  for those that think I can't compare them, just watch me : )  One time I even drank red wine with fish.
 
Imma just get this outa the way: Sony are the best ANC headphones.
 
I'm not going to get into all the comfort and features as that's already out there and Bose wins comfort, sony wins features ... what I will say is the margin that that Bose win on comfort is pretty small, with the margin the Sony's win a features pretty large - one big factor in why the Sony's are the best ANC headphones.
 
But ... there are a few things that could sway that declaration for some people, so let's dig in ...
 
BLUETOOTH
P7s are lightening connect.  Sonys are delayed about a 1s, Bose are bit behind that.  Overall the Bose are just more finicky to connect across my devices (2015 MBP, android tablets and phones (N7, N6, 5x), and iPad), although the Bose didn't annoy me as much as when I first tried them.  I have an EMF-dense environment and range is not great with any of the 3, although the Sonys did best with the P7s and Bose trailing equally.  Of the 3 BT headsets, the Sonys easily win.
 
ACTIVE NOISE CANCELING
Here are the tested scenarios:
* Loud vacuum
* Loud lobby, lots of voices
* Clinking of a coffee cups, silverware, general jingles
* Aircraft flying overhead -- close
* Sirens going by, very very loud sirens
* City traffic noise (trucks, horns, motors, etc)
* City background noise
* Monster air purifier
* Pool party sounds (kids yelling, adult murmuring)
* Loud TV
* Quiet room
 
The Sony Crackle
Yup the crackle is there ... BUT.  it's so slight and faint and artifact-y and you can only hear it in a quiet room.  It would never be anything I wouldn't buy them over and I can see why Sony released the with this.  Yes it's there but ... really?  This is problem?  I suppose I can see some people being annoyed if they want perfect in a silent or near silent room (i.e., steady background noise that's cancelled and nothing playing).  If that's your top use-case, get the Bose.  Otherwise you'll never hear it and I'd forget it was there, so for me it's a non-factor.  If this was the kind of thing that bothered me I'd probably have killed myself by now anyway. 
 
The Low Frequencies
Yup, Sony is better than Bose.  Not omg-bose-just-pooped-their-pants better though.  Just a stitch better.  With both, they really cancel out "whoosh" and white noise and any hums, thrums, or low booms.  Great stuff.  Places where you really notice are internal/external aircraft engine noise, diesel truck sounds, the low register of a TV, and general background noise.  It takes it down by roughly 70% overall.
 
This is quite noticeable in comparing the Sonys/QCs to the PSBs and the P7s.  The PSB ANC is a joke comparatively, taking down overall noise by about 5-10% at the most, but making them still worse than the P7s with passive noise blocking. 
 
Slight win for Sony, but firmly in the who-really-gives-a-shiit category
 
The High Frequencies
Mostly all headphones were the same here with the PSBs still trailing by quite a bit since they don't have good passive isolation ... meaning they're all pretty ineffective.  But let's dig into that a bit ... for things like ambulance sirens the P7s were as good as either of the ANC leaders and that was similar with piercing kid screams, airplane engine whine, vacuum whine.
 
Adult voices is where things got interesting.   First off, you can still hear them, so let's get that out of the way.  BUT.  The Sonys were better here ... not by much and both the Sony's and QC35s helped by about 40-50%.  Now if I read what I just wrote my gut reaction would be NO THEY DON'T! but I really really did some A/B/C testing here:  The P7s do their normal cutting things down across the board, although they appear to cut highs more, but I think that's only because they're letting in lows - I'd look into that more if I wasn't lazy, but I am intellectually curious about that.  Anyway, with voices, when you switch from the P7s to either of ANC-leads you immediately lose the low frequencies of the voices.  I never noticed this as brightly before, but it definitely helps with voices in general ... and that's where I"m getting my 50% from.  Yes you can still hear them, but with the ANC-leads, many of the frequencies disappear and that helps overall.  Ok, so between the Sonys and the QC35s, the Sonys do this better although it took me  few minutes of switching to determine it was definitely there - the problem was, once I noticed it I couldn't un-notice it so I'm giving the win firmly to the Sonys but, again, if you're looking for magic voice blockers these are all giant losers; they help though.
 
SOUND QUALITY
I lack the skills (and maybe ear) to do a sound deconstruction of the sort seen here so I'm going to keep this quite short based on other reviews including mine:
 
* Loud and not Proud.  The QC35s get loud, but not oh-I'm-jammin-now loud, just why-is-that-old-man-talking-so-loud loud.  The Sonys get both louder, and better louder.  If I wanted to jam out I'd definitely pick the Sonys for volume over the QC35s.
 
* Is anybody there?  The QC35s still have that distant sound to me ... it's kinda like candle light in a dark room: yes you can add more candles (volume) but it's still candle light.  The Sonys don't have this, so it's a firm win for the Sonys on "distant sounding".
 
* It's all about the bass.  I'd have to give it to the QC35s here, but it's a pyrrhic victory because of that distant thing.  The Sonys don't have the punch but as far as I'm concerned they both kinda suck and would both be in the you'll-get-used-to-it-eventually camp.  But win for the Bose I guess.
 
Oh feck it.  Look, I think they both sound like shiit (Sonys and QC35s), no offense to anyone.  That's kinda harsh because, frankly, they Sony's sounded better than the wired PSBs so there's that.  While the Sonys are weaker on bass, I liked the overall sound better whether it was jazz, classical, erykah badu, EDM, or show or movies.  It's not what I'd say it hugely better, just better.
 
The P7s.
Oh you magnificent bastards.  Remember my light analogy?  Well comparatively, the P7s are like overhead fluorescent lights flipping on with strong bass tracks like occasionally having a spotlight flip on - it's little unpleasant but who doesn't like the spotlight?  and this is with all the background noise.  There are all kinds of details you barely or don't notice on the ANC-leads that make me say wow with the P7s.  One of my test was to watch the same scene of a show called Killjoys which is Sci-Fi show with all kinds of sciencey sounds - on the P7s I could hear all kinds of little details that were just not there on any of the others - and then the background hums  or booms, whoa, hello.  On the ANC-leads just a big yawn.
 
CONCLUSION
Keeping the P7s, although I don't recommend this for anyone looking for ANC.  For me, hearing occasional background noise with great sound is less annoying than constant crappy sound with lowered background noise.  It's a completely stupid choice, but the P7s ruined me.  I'm still excited to put them on, and they feel great.  The others just felt like, oh-I-suppose-I-should-wear-them-now and I'm looking forward to putting on the P7s right now and there's a garbage disposal running that I'm right next to.
 
I had some angst over it until I thought of it this way: you're on an airplane / in a cafe / in a loud office and you want to listen to a show / some tunes / a tv show;  of these 3 sets in front of you (P7, QC35, Sonys) which do you *want* to grab? 
 
P7s every time.

 

[Phoebus7]

was the comparison of Sony with P7 wireless was the new MDR1000x. do think the SQ on P7 is so great it overshadows all the ANC and other features of Sony.

 

[GrussGott]

  was the comparison of Sony with P7 wireless was the new MDR1000x. do think the SQ on P7 is so great it overshadows all the ANC and other features of Sony.

 
Yes, the MDR1000Xs, and yes the better sound quality overshadows everything else for me. 
 
We're all different but the net-net for me was I determined that I prefer great sound with occasional background noise to mediocre sound with lowered low frequencies.
 
The only scenarios I would want noise-cancelling headphones for are:
(1.) A loud noisy office where I don't listen to anything - in that case I'd use the ANC along with white noise played in them.
(2.) Silence in a room with airconditioning running or loud "whoosh" noises but no variable higher frequency noises like voices or glasses clinking.
 
In all other scenarios, i.e, where I'm listening to a source like music or a show, I prefer great sound with the occasional intrusion of background noise.  This is because ANC doesn't block voices or variable noises like glasses clinking or engine whine.  Also, the ANC has huge performance-dip right at the frequency of human voices (you can see this graphed on innerfidelity) - I wonder if that's for legal reasons?  But the result is, yes airplane white noise is gone, but voices and screaming babies aren't.  Those are the things I care most about cancelling.  With the P7s, they sound so great and the passive cancelling is good enough that at even moderate levels you don't hear a thing.  The QC35s and the Sony just don't have this type of immersion.
 
So after using noise cancelling headphones for 4 years for flights, etc I'm now off them because they just don't sound very good, and I picked the P7 wireless which sound fantastic.  Watching a TV show on an airplane for example, I hear all kinds of sound effects and noises that I just don't hear with the QC35s or the Sonys and, ultimately, that's much more immersive to me than not hearing the airplane engines at very low volumes.
 
So for travel, for me, it's the Bowers & Wilkens wireless P7s - they're the headphones I look for excuses to wear.

 

[Phoebus7]

Many thanks for clarifying and detailed information.

 

[Soundizer]

 
was the comparison of Sony with P7 wireless was the new MDR1000x. do think the SQ on P7 is so great it overshadows all the ANC and other features of Sony.

Yes, the MDR1000Xs, and yes the better sound quality overshadows everything else for me. 

We're all different but the net-net for me was I determined that I prefer great sound with occasional background noise to mediocre sound with lowered low frequencies.

The only scenarios I would want noise-cancelling headphones for are:
(1.) A loud noisy office where I don't listen to anything - in that case I'd use the ANC along with white noise played in them.
(2.) Silence in a room with airconditioning running or loud "whoosh" noises but no variable higher frequency noises like voices or glasses clinking.

In all other scenarios, i.e, where I'm listening to a source like music or a show, I prefer great sound with the occasional intrusion of background noise.  This is because ANC doesn't block voices or variable noises like glasses clinking or engine whine.  Also, the ANC has huge performance-dip right at the frequency of human voices (you can see this graphed on innerfidelity) - I wonder if that's for legal reasons?  But the result is, yes airplane white noise is gone, but voices and screaming babies aren't.  Those are the things I care most about cancelling.  With the P7s, they sound so great and the passive cancelling is good enough that at even moderate levels you don't hear a thing.  The QC35s and the Sony just don't have this type of immersion.

So after using noise cancelling headphones for 4 years for flights, etc I'm now off them because they just don't sound very good, and I picked the P7 wireless which sound fantastic.  Watching a TV show on an airplane for example, I hear all kinds of sound effects and noises that I just don't hear with the QC35s or the Sonys and, ultimately, that's much more immersive to me than not hearing the airplane engines at very low volumes.

So for travel, for me, it's the Bowers & Wilkens wireless P7s - they're the headphones I look for excuses to wear.

A superb review. I am now seriously considering returning my Bose QC35 to Amazon as only just got them.

I don't want to compromise on sound quality and anyway like you point out the P7 wireless have reasonable passive isolation.

The reason I didn't consider the P7's previously was I used to have the (P5's wired) which I did not like - small sound and poor sound stage.

If the p7's support AAC then I might buy them straight away.

 

[Soundizer]

I wrote this up in the P7 Wireless thread, but here's a snippet from there with my 2 cents on the comparo:

* Sound Isolation
Pretty Stellar - they shut things out when you just put them on (no sound/power).  The PSBs aren't even close in this regard, but the Bose QC35s were noticeably better still - again, just putting them on, no power.  They definitely block out a lot of background noise ... a word about that.  I live in a downtown apartment with a balcony 12 flights up from dance clubs on the approach to an international airport; in short it's really easy for me to test sound isolation for all kinds of different dins.  harleys.  airplanes.  diesel trucks.  traffic noise.  club noise.  city din, etc, more on that in a bit.

* Do I need ANC?
I was really looking for a "do everything" set of headphones which, for me, is movies/shows, airplane travel, some music.  With my PSBs, they do everything pretty good and I thought, given my Bose OE Soundlink experience, that the QC35s would be everything my PSBs were but with way better ANC.  No so.  The SQ was not horrible but not great - not even close to my PSBs; yes, the QC35 ANC was better, but after trying them out I started to wonder if I cared which is why I got the P7s

In testing the isolation of P7s, of course it's not as good as the QC35s with the ANC on, but when the music or show was playing I could barely tell.  With both, I could hear loud trucks, planes, or clinking/clanking and voices - the Bose QC35s were slightly better at those things, but not much.  Of course where the Bose excel is the whoosh / droning lower frequency isolation.  There's no doubt it's nice to have that gone, but I really had a hard time remembering it was there with the P7s - only if I thought about it.  When I put on the PSBs with ANC and thought about it, I did notice it wasn't there but I kinda didn't care.  On the QC35s, eliminating that lower frequency stuff certainly isn't worth the heavily compromised sound quality for me.  If I prized complete silence (of those frequencies) over all other factors like SQ, then the QCs win, but I don't.

On an airplane, there are really two places I notice a big difference over ANC: taking off and landing.  At cruise there's not much of a difference - again, it's there if I look but I forget to even look.

When I add it all up: there's a few instances where I definitely would want the ANC, but overall the B&W are so good passively I don't really care.  This isn't true with the PSBs (ANC off obviously) or the Bose OE Soundlinks - with those I definitely want the ANC, but with the P7s the background noise that would be blocked by the QC35s just isn't there enough to justify the SQ tradeoff for me.

Which device are you using. iPhone is AAC only and not AptX. It can make a big difference.

 

[GrussGott]

Which device are you using. iPhone is AAC only and not AptX. It can make a big difference.

2015 MBP; Android Nexus 7, 6, 5x; iPad

 

[techboy]

Get a HD 598 with BTunes.

 

[StanD]

  Get a HD 598 with BTunes.

That makes no sense as ANC is part of the consideration in this thread and the HD598's are open back as in no isolation.

 

[Roen]

Which device are you using. iPhone is AAC only and not AptX. It can make a big difference.

How audible are the AptX vs. SBC differences using headphones that aren't monitoring headphones? Perhaps you'll hear it on the P7 but most likely not the QC35 or the 1000x.

 

[Soundizer]

you can easily hear the difference and to make it clear.

The Senn PXC550 (AptX) and premium Senn Momen Wireless (AptX) are good sounding headphones but because they do not have AAC when paired with iPhone (AAC support only), they do not sound any where close to when connecting to a AptX devices.

My point is - iPhone users should only buy AAC supported headphones. The P7 are probably the best sounding wireless headphones that support AAC, so far.

 

[synthgirl]

So I ended up returning Bose QC35 - I just couldn't deal with the muffled, lifeless sound quality. I got a Bowers & Wilkins Wireless P7 which I've been using for 10 days.
 
I am happy with the P7 sound quality - music from my iPhone sound more lively and true to the real thing than it did with Bose. My heart feels the music it could not feel with QC35.
 
The downside I see is with comfort:
I cannot say, as a woman, that I find them super comfy despite all the men praising its looks and feel online - the buttery leather is great, but they feel a little heavy for me. I also feel the arc on the top of my head more than I' like to. As I designer, I don't love the traditional-looking design. Two more issues on comfort: they do get a little hot (but Bose did as well); and the last thing is they are on the small side: my ears are not large but if they were a tiny larger, it would not be comfortable to wear these, so I do advise you try it before getting them. As is, I feel my ears touching the cups which is funny as I never had it happened before with any headphone.
 
But as for me sound quality is #1, at this price range it feels like I picked the best headphone out there.

 

[Roen]

So I ended up returning Bose QC35 - I just couldn't deal with the muffled, lifeless sound quality. I got a Bowers & Wilkins Wireless P7 which I've been using for 10 days.

I am happy with the P7 sound quality - music from my iPhone sound more lively and true to the real thing than it did with Bose. My heart feels the music it could not feel with QC35.

The downside I see is with comfort:
I cannot say, as a woman, that I find them super comfy despite all the men praising its looks and feel online - the buttery leather is great, but they feel a little heavy for me. I also feel the arc on the top of my head more than I' like to. As I designer, I don't love the traditional-looking design. Two more issues on comfort: they do get a little hot (but Bose did as well); and the last thing is they are on the small side: my ears are not large but if they were a tiny larger, it would not be comfortable to wear these, so I do advise you try it before getting them. As is, I feel my ears touching the cups which is funny as I never had it happened before with any headphone.

But as for me sound quality is #1, at this price range it feels like I picked the best headphone out there.

did you try the Sony at all?

 

[StanD]

I picked up a pair of QC35's and found them to sound rather good, despite being Bose. Tyll at InnerFidelity concurs and is putting them on the Wall of Fame. The Sub Bass is rather good, though slightly elevated and without 2nd harmonic distortion (that's good). The Mids didn't take the usual hit and the trebles didn't have the weird slanted boost so things sounded rather good. I find it noteworthy when I can listen to the bass and easily distinguish each and every musical note (pitch). The percussion transients were rendered nicely. Of course the ANC is outstanding and made the droning of the Bus and Train disappear.
I have Planar Mag/Orthos headphone that cost far more than the QC35's so I am picky. At one time I had QC15's and other than the ANC I was very disappointed.