[JahJahBinks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd R I think there should be another test for the cable skeptics out there. Make 2 identical cables with the same wire, and one with different wire. Pass those around and see how many people can pick out the different one! That should settle it once & for all. TR

Or make 2 identical cables with identical wires but paint one of them red and the other blue. Then Pass those around and see how many people do NOT think they are identical.

 

[geek707]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JahJahBinks How about a blind power cord test next?

Talk about starting a war.......

 

[Oliver :)]

Hmm, neat setup, but... somehow it all doesn't make much sense due to the connectors. It looks as though there were quality connectors used here, so all I would read from this is "quality connectors & good soldering help making cheap wire sound good". And let's face it, all cable is relatively cheap wire that becomes more expensive due to what is done with it... and it is this refining process that makes for a good or bad cable. Maybe this Rat Shack should be on sale as the RS-Miracle or something along that line...

 

[Patrick82]

This test shows that cables are PLACEBO for 99% of the people. Save some cash and sell the high-end cables and buy stock cables instead!

Also sell the high-end amp and source because they are placebo as well: "Oooh this pretty $20k box sounds amazing

". "Haargh, this big box must give monster bass

".

I always got disappointed from an amp or source upgrade because they didn't do anything to fix the sound, they just gave a different flavor. To me they are more placebo than cables. Someone should make a blind test of sources with different exterior!

To me a non-shielded stock cable sounds better than a well shielded one, because the harshness emphasizes detail. Too much shielding makes it muddy for my ears no matter how much the cable costs, all the subtle details are gone. But with Nordost Valhalla I have no problem because it is smoother and has more detail than stock cable, so with me it's either stock or Valhalla.

Edit: I also liked Nordost Vishnu which was little better than stock, the only major difference was that it sounded smoother. Everything else was about the same.

 

[Oliver :)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 so with me it's either stock or Valhalla.

Word!

 

[eyeteeth]

Bravo Ed & Co.

That was cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl I think that whomever suggested a a test where two cables were identical while the third was different, and you were asked to identify the different cable would yield a more relevant to result to answering the question: "are all cables the same?".

That would also be informative. I'm not sure if "are all cables the same?" is the question. "Is there much difference?" is closer.

In either type of test I'd wish one cable would be a behemoth of ego, a "reference" like Valhalla.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 This test shows that cables are PLACEBO for 99% of the people.

Where did you get that from? The test shows nothing of the sort. Are you being facetious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 I always got disappointed from an amp or source upgrade because they didn't do anything to fix the sound, they just gave a different flavor. To me they are more placebo than cables.

If it sounds different, how is it placebo? Perhaps by placebo, you mean something different that how people on this forum typically use the word, i.e, that there is no difference in sound, but one believes he or she hears a difference based on an expectation?

 

[markl]

Quote:

This test shows that cables are PLACEBO for 99% of the people. Save some cash and sell the high-end cables and buy stock cables instead! To me a non-shielded stock cable sounds better than a well shielded one, because the harshness emphasizes detail. Too much shielding makes it muddy for my ears no matter how much the cable costs, all the subtle details are gone. But with Nordost Valhalla I have no problem because it is smoother and has more detail than stock cable, so with me it's either stock or Valhalla. Edit: I also liked Nordost Vishnu which was little better than stock, the only major difference was that it sounded smoother. Everything else was about the same.

So, IYHO all cables are placebo but you can hear differences between shielded and unshielded? So that's not placebo? Which is it? And why stop at shielded or unshielded? Either any factor of a cable's design impacts performance/sound, or none of them do. Monk or heretic, no in-between!

 

[Patrick82]

Someone can have placebo even if there's a measured difference, because that's what they expect when they plug it in. It doesn't mean they really hear the improvement themselves.

Everything in a cable design matters, the conductor material isn't really that important. That's why so many manufacturers use cheap copper. I believe the connector makes the biggest difference between most cheap cables. In the high-end it's all about the dielectric.

You can make a DIY cable sound as good as an expensive cable if you know how it all works. Nobody knows it, that's why there are so many different designs that just give different flavors.

 

[Jeff E]

Let me voice my appreciation to Edwood for the effort and patience that this experiment demanded. The following in no way detracts from that appreciation.

In the original discussion thread Edwood lays out this study's objective and predicts that it will be enjoyable. Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood So here's a chance to prove whether or not you can hear the difference between cables. This is my current method for this "test" I'm open to suggestions. I think this will be fun.

In the subsequent sign up thread he reiterated his objective:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood The object of this test is to see for yourself if you can hear the difference between different analog interconnect cables' conductors.

It seems pretty clear that Edwood's objective was to assess whether the subjects could discriminate among the sound of the three cables. This question has been hotly debated and is certainly worthwhile. A clear answer would be a significant contribution to audio and would be referenced frequently.
Quote:

Originally Posted by markl ... it seems your test only measures whether people's pre-conceived ideas of what each cable type *should* sound like, matches with how they *actually* sound (or at least the individual samples under review). ... What if none of the cables provided typify even the worst stereotype of what these metals are supposed to sound like?

Markl's point, that we could attribute poor performance in identification to either failure to preceptually discriminate the sound of the cables or to failure to share a common concept of their sound (stereotype) seems to be a valid one.

This ambiguous outcome is not unusual inasmuch as a single research study is rarely definitive. Typically, each piece of research builds on previous work and has different shortcomings. The identify the odd of three cables suggestion seems to be a sound [sic] approach. Anyone game to take it on? If you are reading this and thinking "that sounds like too much work" then increase your admiration for what Ed has done by a couple of units.

Am I glad Edwood undertook this research? Yes. As a participant, I believe I have gotten a better understanding of the role that cables can play for me.

Once again, my thanks to Ed.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 Someone can have placebo even if there's a measured difference, because that's what they expect when they plug it in. It doesn't mean they really hear the improvement themselves.

I suppose so, but that's not really a placebo effect we are concerned about, IMO. I mean, the issue that occupies many of us on this board, ad nauseum, is whether, due to a placebo effect, people are hearing differences that are not measurable and/or that are not really there in terms of an audible effect. IMO, we don't need to worry too much about whether people claim to hear differences that actually correspond to measured differences, but that they really can't hear even though they say they can.

 

[geek707]

I just wanted to add my thanks to Edwood for all the hard work on this.

 

[aznsensazian]

Good stuff Edwood, how did i do?

 

[bigshot]

I think this shows more about how convoluted some people's logic is than it does how cables sound!

See ya
Steve

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot I think this shows more about how convoluted some people's logic is than it does how cables sound!

Absolutely. This is a phenomenon observed in virtually every cable thread.