[warrior05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was curious to know if this cable is an exception or if there is a real problem here. I don't consider one that way an real problem. If this is not a rare exception then there is a problem. I'm trying to find out. I'd rather not make judgements from a sample size of 1.

I've given ALO the benefit of the doubt that what I saw may be an exception. Please tell me where I've made a "judgment"? The only judgments I've seen so far are ones directed at me.

Take a look back and you will see a poster mentioning they weren't thrilled at ALO's build quality. Seems everyone has conveniently ignored the post.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Once again - TOTALLY NOT THE POINT.

Totally not the point for you. It's exactly the point for me.

It's not all about the manufacturer being ALO or any other for me. It's the fact that they were not given the chance to respond before you went public.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've given ALO the benefit of the doubt that what I saw may be an exception. Please tell me where I've made a "judgment"? The only judgments I've seen so far are ones directed at me. Take a look back and you will see a poster mentioning they weren't thrilled at ALO's build quality. Seems everyone has conveniently ignored the post.

Then I have no idea what you were trying to accomplish in this thread. You said that you were providing constructive criticism. I saw the criticism part but nothing constructive. Giving constructive criticism means also offering suggestions to improve the problem, not just point out the problem.

If you are married, I suggest that you spend the next week giving your wife such constructive criticism (i.e. pointing out what she does wrong) and see how it works. If you are not married, try it with a friend.

I'm not sticking up for ALO. I've already said that I find them too expensive for me (no matter the build quality). It's your approach that bugs me.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo_me /img/forum/go_quote.gif feedback is feedback...and they should be both positive and negative and let the readers decide. jeez...it's like no one can write anything slightly negative, regardless how honest and/or true it may be. I think the op put his comments within perfectly clear context...he didn't slam Ken. He just expressed his experience. why is it that people can post high praise all the time here and not vice versa? Products of quality will stand out on its own without censorship which is what this kind of mentality leads when people feel like they can't honestly express both negative and positive experiences. sometimes, people get a little too sensitive here...

I've seen no censorship in this thread. Has anybody had their messages deleted? There is disagreement, that's all. Disagreement is not a bad thing.

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, you don't have to do anything. You are choosing to do it.

Yes, to defend myself against your inaccurate statements.


Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was curious to know if this cable is an exception or if there is a real problem here. I don't consider one that way an real problem. If this is not a rare exception then there is a problem. I'm trying to find out. I'd rather not make judgements from a sample size of 1.

Again, If I send out a poorly made headphone stand I feel the customer has a right to openly voice his dissatisfaction. I don't feel he needs to contact other members that I've built for to find out if their product had equaly poor construction, or buy more of my products to judge their quality before he voices his concerns. If you feel differently that's OK, but you can't hold me to your standards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I still think that you should have talked to Ken about quality issues before going public. I would have. However, feel free to talk all you want.

And what should I talk to him about? His soldering tecnique? I don't know how to solder, so it would be a short pointless conversation.
Again I'll use my headphone stand analogy, because that's what I know...If I sent out a poorly constructed headphone stand, do you think the customer should call me and tell me how to build a headphone stand? Why don't they just build their own in that case. Is it wrong to expect me to build the stand properly in the first place? Isn't that why they commision me after all?
And again if you'd read the post you'd see that the person who went public is the OP. I didn't join the thread until the second page. But I do agree with everything warrior05 has said and done.

 

[warrior05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then I have no idea what you were trying to accomplish in this thread. You said that you were providing constructive criticism. I saw the criticism part but nothing constructive. Giving constructive criticism means also offering suggestions to improve the problem, not just point out the problem. If you are married, I suggest that you spend the next week giving your wife such constructive criticism (i.e. pointing out what she does wrong) and see how it works. If you are not married, try it with a friend. I'm not sticking up for ALO. I've already said that I find them too expensive for me (no matter the build quality). It's your approach that bugs me.

As for my issue with the build quality, I'm sorry if I assumed what would be my suggestion to improve upon the problem. My suggestion is to pay closer attention to soldering techniques and avoid acute bends in the wiring.

As for the shipping charges I suggested he should revisit his shipping calculations.

I stated before what my intent of this thread was. Pardon me for not wanting to repeat myself yet again.

I have no issues with those who feel I should have contacted Ken first. I personally feel it wouldn't have accomplished anything since I still would've posted here. But I do respect your opinion in this regard.

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you are married, I suggest that you spend the next week giving your wife such constructive criticism (i.e. pointing out what she does wrong) and see how it works. If you are not married, try it with a friend.

Personal crap like suggesting how he relate to his wife is uncalled for and downright childish.

Stick to the topic at hand, and keep the personal vollies out of it.

I have no issue with anybody disagreeing with me, and stating so in this thread. I'm a big boy and can have a civil debate about a subject with no problem. But these personal slaps are stupid and not worthy of an educated reply, and I won't bother to respond to this kind of garbage again.
If you can stay civil I'll respond to any concern you voice.

 

[warrior05]

I wanted to take this time to remind everyone that Ken has responded to this thread. The full quote is below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by KB /img/forum/go_quote.gif warrior0, I am very sorry to hear about your problems. However all you had to do was email me or ask me to call you and I would have just sent you a replacement. It hurts me that people would post a poor reflection of me on such an open forum. I take my job seriously. I back my stuff up and have people do this all the time and I value and up hold my good customer service. We are working the bugs out of the SH program and while $15 is more the Priority mail charges we have to account for shipping and handling. Moreover we have to account for the lost items that I have to “eat”. We are amending the rates now as we so along and that item was amended a while ago and he must have bought it from the NEW website one of the first days, before we tweaked the SH values. As for your critique of our soldering. I don’t think its far to equate “pretty” soldering with good sound. I have never had much issues with this until your post. I don’t know what to say about all this? Please send it back to me and I will refund you your money. Ken

In his first paragraph he is responding as I had a customer service issue. I hope I've stated it enough time that was not an issue.

He said they are "amending the rates now" and that I may have been a victim from the work needed on the new site (I did order from his new site). I don't have any issues with this response and haven't discussed about the shipping charge any further.

His third paragraph speaks volumes to me and is where I greatly differ with his philosophy. He doesn't apologize or make an excuse for the soldering work. (I never equated pretty with quality of sound so he is misrepresenting me with that statement.) Therefore he feels his workmanship is fine. I disagree and I expect more from a premium priced product. Don't you all think it is worth something that ALO's philosophy in this regard is made public? It gives us consumers information that can be used when purchasing his products in the future. If you have no issues with his philosophy - more power to you. Go ahead and continue to be his customer and enjoy his products. But some may have an issue as I do and think twice about it. I'm sorry but I fail to see how this is inherently a bad thing.

 

[c0mfortably_numb]

Just curious if you took a photo of the the piece before working on it, not that i don't believe you, just thought maybe it would help some from starting a flame war before even reading through the posts.

Also I feel the shipping fee is way out of line at $15. For $15 I would expect next day air, yes every company marks up there "handling" and "material" costs, but I don't think even 2 day priority USPS would cost more then $5.

 

[skev13]

I wonder how many people in this thread have actually owned an ALO cable? I'm pretty sure its not 100%.

 

[warrior05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0mfortably_numb /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just curious if you took a photo of the the piece before working on it, not that i don't believe you, just thought maybe it would help some from starting a flame war before even reading through the posts.

20/20 hindsight - wish I had but alas, no pics.

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just expect hand soldering done by a professional to be neat.

Thats probably your biggest mis-conception... Ive seen "high-end" hand made ICs and cables that ran the gamut of quality levels. I'm not going to point fingers or name names, but lets just say that quality levels can vary by a considerable amount, over a sample population, regardless of who is doing the work.

I for one wouldn't take any single hand-made cable/adapter item and treat it as a representative (good or bad) of a population. Be it high end or otherwise.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkam /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nope not difficult to grasp at all and that is what most people do but in this case swt has explained why he didn't do that. The OP also never mentioned anything about poor customer service. He simply stated his opinion on the shipping charges and his opinion on the workmanship of the cable. The only reason this thread has turned into a circus is because the OP's opinions happened to be negative.

Well if complaining about shoddy workmanship and pricing isn't customer service I don't know what is. Warrior started a thread there starts out "Bit of beef with ALO..." He then goes on to complain about the workmanship on a single cable made by Ken. He also complains about the price of shipping. Now why would someone post about this in an open forum? For the good of the community to save us from the scourge of ALO. I don't think so. One example of alleged poor workmanship is hardly something we all needed to be warned about. The same for the shipping. Negative opinions against a guy that is trying to earn a living like Ken does has a ramification that could cause him to lose business based upon one persons accusation about poor quality. While praising him is likely to help his business posting a thread like this has a detrimental effect that effects his bottom line. I would think long and hard before doing that to someone, anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlacker /img/forum/go_quote.gif tyrion, you dont need to defend Ken because you own his product. Don't worry Mikey, we won't think of you any less only because you own something made by a manufacturer who is getting negative feedback.

Nice try Slacker, but I don't own any of his products. I've owned two of his cables and sold both. What the colletive "you" think of me is of little concern to me. Negative feedback should be in a feedback thread when it is justified. All I've read is a complaint about a $15 shipping charge and accusation about a poor soldering job on a single cable. Hardly worth starting a thread about. My god, is this the first time someone paid more for shipping than they wanted to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again warrior or myself have never complained about Ken's failure to address the original problem. It's already been stated that I never contacted him about that issue.

That's not the point. He started a thread that was negative without giving Ken the courtesy of knowing about a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo_me /img/forum/go_quote.gif feedback is feedback...and they should be both positive and negative and let the readers decide. jeez...it's like no one can write anything slightly negative, regardless how honest and/or true it may be. I think the op put his comments within perfectly clear context...he didn't slam Ken. He just expressed his experience. why is it that people can post high praise all the time here and not vice versa? Products of quality will stand out on its own without censorship which is what this kind of mentality leads when people feel like they can't honestly express both negative and positive experiences. sometimes, people get a little too sensitive here...

The effect on a persons business by posting bs like the OP did, is negative for the sake of being negative. If he was trying to accomplish some thing other than to hurt Ken then he would have thought better of it before starting the thread. He would have contacted Ken. Maybe the OP was a little sensitive when he decided to complain about the shipping charge and soldering job. Or maybe he was being insensitive.

 

[Agent Kang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is, with all due respect, nonsense. Where is this censorship? Has this thread so critical of a sponsor been locked? Deleted? The answer is no...well, at least not yet. I'm thinking it will stay open so long as people stay somewhat civil. What you seem to be confusing with censorship is a reaction by the membership that might justifiably make another poster think twice about doing what was done in this thread: post about a beef with said sponsor without making an attempt to contact him and resolve it. That's nothing but good IMHO...the reaction by the membership is out of what some perceive as unfair treatment. Had an attempt to fix the situation with the vendor been made by the OP's, I'm sure the reaction would have been much different.

By censorship I meant a systematic means of restricting the freedom of expression. I, and I'm sure some others may agree, will think twice about posting any comment that may be taken as controversial about a vendor/product knowing the perceived reaction it will cause here. That in itself; the suppression of member expression by such coerce means, is itself a form of CENSORSHIP.

And with all due respect, the issue at hand is not about vendor aftersales support, as been mentioned previously countless times. It is about 2nd rate workmanship of a product which has been purchased at a premium. My first car, which was of a premium European brand, caused me countless headaches with its faulty electronical failures. YES, it was covered by warranty, but I still have the right to be dissatisfied by the product am I not?

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I for one wouldn't take any single hand-made cable/adapter item and treat it as a representative (good or bad) of a population. Be it high end or otherwise.

It doesn't have to be representative of a population for me.
I don't care if the cable I received was 1 out of 100. I paid a premium price, and I believe I have the right to expect premium work. QC had better be higher than that for me to consider the product to be worth the price. Of coarse my expectations drop with the price point. I don't find this at all unreasonable. If I bought a Lamborghini that had QC issues, the fact that the next 100 cars off the line didn't have those same issues brings me no comfort whatsoever.