[Rise To The Top]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeride74 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have no idea what ALO's expenses are when it comes to shipping and it's not as if it is some crazy amount like $85 for the Stello or something.

Did you just bitch about Stello shipping? Please dont, they charge quite reasonable prices, international shipping, weight, and packaging add up to about 80. The Stello isnt some piece of **** portable amp made of plastic and $3 caps that you people get off on. The Stellos are high quality home amps, and are VERY heavy.

I dont think I will deal with ALO due to the fact that there have been OTHER reports of poor build quality, and the fact that I hate iPods.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But people seem to be able to voice their complaints about their problems with said vehicles without being condemned as some lowlife attacking the virtue of the manufacturer personally. Yep, if we can't have a reasonable discussion without a riot or personal attacks it's time to put it to bed.

We have a small community here. Had you attempted a resolution first and got no satisfaction, I would have no problem with you voicing complaints. No attempt was ever attempted as far as I can tell.

One thing that is interesting is that the person voicing the compaints isn't even a customer of the company he's complaining about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Um... have you not read any of swt61's posts?

I've read them all. I'd be willing to wager that if he asks Ken now, Ken would either replace the cable or refund his money. Is that not a resolution?

I also believe that if one of swt61's customer had a problem with one of his (swt61's) products, he'd do the same thing. Of course, swt61 has to know about the issue before he can do anything about it.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never intended a "resolution". My intent was a discussion, some reasonable debating and some opinions about businesses (not necessarily just ALO's) in general and what can be reasonably expected and any other interesting points of views. Unfortunately, in large, that didn't happen. I'll probably check in from time to time for the remainder of the day but after I call it a night, I'm done with this thread.

To have had what you wanted, all you had to do was leave ALO's name out of your post and thread title, and refer to something like a "high end cable maker". Putting in the name made a general (and reasonable unfortunately) discussion impossible.

 

[swt61]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif We have a small community here. Had you attempted a resolution first and got no satisfaction, I would have no problem with you voicing complaints. No attempt was ever attempted as far as I can tell.

I never once voiced any complaint about ALO's customer service. I have stated numerous times in this thread already that I didn't contact Ken and why. I also stated that if I had I'm sure he would have made good on his product.

The complaint is not about fixing a short, but about what kind of quality should you expect to begin with on an item at this price point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing that is interesting is that the person voicing the compaints isn't even a customer of the company he's complaining about.

Excuse me? warrior and I have both paid ALO for our items, if that's not a customer what is?


Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read them all. I'd be willing to wager that if he asks Ken now, Ken would either replace the cable or refund his money. Is that not a resolution? I also believe that if one of swt61's customer had a problem with one of his (swt61's) products, he'd do the same thing. Of course, swt61 has to know about the issue before he can do anything about it.

I already have resolution. I've never complained about Ken not fixing the cable. I have no issue with Ken standing behind his product, and I never stated I did.

If I sent out a sloppy headphone stand then I fully expect the customer to post a thread about it. Whether or not I resolve the issue, I should never have sent it out that way to begin with. That's a poor business decision IMO

 

[elrod-tom]

This thread IMHO represents a lot of what is wrong with the internet...and some of what is right.

I think the biggest issue here is that a thread was started to complain about a vendor. Fair enough...that's not unheard of, or even unreasonable. I think that most people became agitated, however, when it was revealed that the vendor in question had apparently first become aware of the problem on this site. That strikes MOST folks as being fundamentally unfair...at least give the guy a chance to fix things we say. A back and forth ensues, and members come to the aid of the maligned vendor.

Next, things go really bad as other members who have had no dealings with the vendor arrive on the scene, ostensibly to support the beleagured OP's. Most of these members apparently either wish to simply pile on for the sport of it, or have a strong opinion about the vendor and/or his products in need of an outlet, or...who knows the reason, they pile on and turn the thread into a full on mud-slinging mess.

I am, frankly, always surprised at how often this happens...and ultimately it gets started because a customer is unhappy about some aspect of the sale and decides that a public forum is the appropriate place to air his greivance. Frankly, were it me, I would be LESS likely to go the extra mile to fix a problem if it were brought to my attention in this manner, so really, who wins here? IMHO, the folks who arrive on the scene and pile on are the only winners, if that's the word. They get what they want in the end - conflict...and that's really too bad, as it serves little constructive purpose.

It would be nice if everyone at least gave a vendor a chance to make good on a bad transaction. Business being business, problems are bound to occur. It's how they are handled IMHO that makes all the difference...which is why it's so important to at least give the vendor a heads up when things go wrong. Unfortunately, it's often easier to use the internet and its safely anonymous discussion sites to fire off a complaint...and as we see again, there is no shortage of folks who are more than happy to join in the "fun".

 

[Digitalbath3737]

I think the OP was right about voicing this issue. An informed consumer is the best consumer. If there are problems with a manufacturer's workmanship (especially one that charges such high prices) then it should be brought to the attention of the public. By individuals voicing an issue it gives the consumer a better perspective to see if there is a bigger problem that needs to be addressed.

I really don't see the reasoning behind people bashing the OP for stating a few issues. When a person can't express concern about the quality of a product without an angry mob jumping down there throats then that's a sad day.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the OP was right about voicing this issue. An informed consumer is the best consumer. If there are problems with a manufacturer's workmanship (especially one that charges such high prices) then it should be brought to the attention of the public. By individuals voicing an issue it gives the consumer a better perspective to see if there is a bigger problem that needs to be addressed. I really don't see the reasoning behind people bashing the OP for stating a few issues. When a person can't express concern about the quality of a product without an angry mob jumping down there throats then that's a sad day.

Anyone one of us at any time can be slammed in a similar manner since most of us purchase and resale items all the time around here.

I ask you, do you want to be hit by a post without any communication from your buyer or seller of an item concerning something about your transaction?

To me this is the issue that concerns me. I don't see Ken as any different from me. I am a fan of fair treatment and this behavior concerns me; i.e., no communication between the purchaser and the buyer before the buyer tells the world about an issue that happened months earlier.

At the time of purchase family issues may have sidelined his focus but why not deal with it soon after the family issues cleared up not not months later and without any communications. If being blind sided after months following a purchase without any communication became standard behavior, I can see all of our feedbacks potentially getting real messy.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the OP was right about voicing this issue. An informed consumer is the best consumer. If there are problems with a manufacturer's workmanship (especially one that charges such high prices) then it should be brought to the attention of the public. By individuals voicing an issue it gives the consumer a better perspective to see if there is a bigger problem that needs to be addressed.

Well, this is not a completely unfair position. Think for a moment, however, about the other side of that coin:

The internet, like it or not, has become the personal soapbox for anyone with a PC. The level of noise surrounding what ought to have been a very simple fix between vendor and customer in this one instance is an example of IMHO how the internet is MISused, but let's set that aside for a moment. Given this certain level of noise associated with this and other complaints, would you say that people become MORE sensitive or LESS sensitive to these sorts of complaints?

I think less...I think that people just plain get sick of stuff like this, and the first reaction is to simply tune it out. This is another reason to at least give the vendor a chance to resolve the matter - complaining (because there is so much of it in general on the internet) will IMHO probably have little or no impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalbath3737 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really don't see the reasoning behind people bashing the OP for stating a few issues. When a person can't express concern about the quality of a product without an angry mob jumping down there throats then that's a sad day.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I think the response is out of a fundamental feeling that the vendor didn't get a chance to try to fix what was apparently a bad situation. As stated above, there's a lot of this sort of thing that passes for good reading on the internet, and I think folks also get a little tired of it. Furthermore, this is a fairly tight knit community, and I think the members who came to Ken's aid did so because they felt that one of their own had been treated unfairly.

Again, had the OP's made some effort to resolve the matter with the vendor and failed to gain satisfaction, then there would be a lot more justification for this action. IMHO, it's simply easier to complain with the relative distance and anonymity of the internet than it might be to "confront" the situation head on...which is too bad.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone one of us at any time can be slammed in a similar manner since most of us purchase and resale items all the time around here. I ask you, do you want to be hit by a post without any communication from your buyer or seller of an item concerning something about your transaction? To me this is the issue that concerns me. I don't see Ken as any different from me. I am a fan of fair treatment and this behavior concerns me.

I think this hits the nail right on the head...thanks.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone one of us at any time can be slammed in a similar manner since most of us purchase and resale items all the time around here. I ask you, do you want to be hit by a post without any communication from your buyer or seller of an item concerning something about your transaction? To me this is the issue that concerns me. I don't see Ken as any different from me. I am a fan of fair treatment and this behavior concerns me.

The difference is that ALO is a manufacturer. It is perfectly fair and reasonable for Head-Fi members to post their impressions and observations of manufacturers' products. If those observations happen to be of a flaw in the product, then so be it. That is a valuable data point for other prospective purchasers of the product.

 

[warrior05]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread IMHO represents a lot of what is wrong with the internet...and some of what is right. I think the biggest issue here is that a thread was started to complain about a vendor. Fair enough...that's not unheard of, or even unreasonable. I think that most people became agitated, however, when it was revealed that the vendor in question had apparently first become aware of the problem on this site. That strikes MOST folks as being fundamentally unfair...at least give the guy a chance to fix things we say. A back and forth ensues, and members come to the aid of the maligned vendor. Next, things go really bad as other members who have had no dealings with the vendor arrive on the scene, ostensibly to support the beleagured OP's. Most of these members apparently either wish to simply pile on for the sport of it, or have a strong opinion about the vendor and/or his products in need of an outlet, or...who knows the reason, they pile on and turn the thread into a full on mud-slinging mess. I am, frankly, always surprised at how often this happens...and ultimately it gets started because a customer is unhappy about some aspect of the sale and decides that a public forum is the appropriate place to air his greivance. Frankly, were it me, I would be LESS likely to go the extra mile to fix a problem if it were brought to my attention in this manner, so really, who wins here? IMHO, the folks who arrive on the scene and pile on are the only winners, if that's the word. They get what they want in the end - conflict...and that's really too bad, as it serves little constructive purpose. It would be nice if everyone at least gave a vendor a chance to make good on a bad transaction. Business being business, problems are bound to occur. It's how they are handled IMHO that makes all the difference...which is why it's so important to at least give the vendor a heads up when things go wrong. Unfortunately, it's often easier to use the internet and its safely anonymous discussion sites to fire off a complaint...and as we see again, there is no shortage of folks who are more than happy to join in the "fun".

I am kind of floored by this. Everything you say is very true... taken within its own context. But once again the gist of my original post has been missed. I will attempt this yet again:

[size=small]I have no issue nor is this about ALO's customer service. There was no "bad transaction". There was nothing the vendor was "to make good on". I have personally had a very good customer service experience with ALO that I've stated earlier.[size=x-small]

It seems the bulk of these posts are based on misinterpretation/misrepresentation of my original post. Forget I even mentioned there was a broken wire. The dock was perfectly fine and I just took apart for giggles and what I found was... How's that? Do you all understand that? Has comprehension taken a holiday today?!!!

I have maintained my composure and continue to try and respond to posts in a respectful manner. I am a very patient man but honestly, I am really starting to feel myself lose some of my demeanor.

I really should just walk away but when I see post by two different moderators who have missed my point it has me rather flabbergasted.

Someone, I beg of you, please show me where I criticized Ken's customer service.
[/size][/size]

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excuse me? warrior and I have both paid ALO for our items, if that's not a customer what is?

I was referring to the OP, whom I understood to be talking about what turned out to be your ALO product, not his. I had no idea whether or not he was an ALO owner.

I'm curious, is this the only ALO product with poor quality that you two have seen? Did warrior open any of his ALO products to compare? If so, what was the result?

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swt61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't send the cable to warrior05 until months later, and even then only because i had a package going out to him anyway. Your assumption that I found the time to ship it to warrior around the same time frame just shows how eager you are to jump to conclusions.

This is the reference to months later that I have been referring too.

I don't really see how it could have been months since this device has not been available that long but this is here anyway. Could have been weeks, maybe.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior05 /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=small][size=x-small] Someone, I beg of you, please show me where I criticized Ken's customer service. [/size][/size]

There is a point being missed by this question here. Neither of you, the purchaser or you did not ask for any service after finding a problem which is something I think should have occurred before the OP.

How can there be customer service if none is ask for? So no you have not criticized a service you did not seek nor asked for. You just slammed a person for something you did not ask for or seek resolution from.

Nor was there much concern apparently about the device until months later. I don't understand why this became an issue for an item that had been essentially discarded.

 

[Agent Kang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkam /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't waste your breath repeating it anymore, people are just seeing (or perceiving) what they feel is a negative post towards ALO and are automatically going into attack mode. I have no idea why people take negative posts about a manufacturer of some gear they own so personally but they do and they really makes it impossible to have a real critical discussion about almost any product here.

Absolutely. All sponsor-based online communities suffer from this. It is unfortunate that Head-fi takes this type of censorship to another level. I frankly never understood why product criticisms are reacted with such negativity here.