[CaptBubba]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch my theory: talent DOES NOT equal good music (or for the geeks: talent != good music)

Very true, but (I know I may piss some people off by saying this) I think that Victor Wooten is a better example. Amazing speed and skill of the bass guitar, but all he plays is scales and harmonics and no music. Such a waste of talent. (btw, he played with DMB live once)

To me, selling out is when a band doesn't change it's style over the years. Bands evolve, their lives change, and so should their music. When a band produces three or four albums in a row that are nearly identical they are just repeating what worked before.

It really depends on the band in question. Some bands love music, some love being the center of attention, others just like to see account ballances go up and up and up.

 

[lucien]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Guidry I don't define Eminem and Limp Bizkit and Britney Spears ad nauseum as sell-outs because from the beginning they were about image before music.

It saddens me to see you reference Eminem in the same sentence as Britney Spears.

Take the blinkers off, stop listening to the singles on the radio, and listen to a full album of his. As a lyricist, and as an entertainer, he outclasses most.

I don't know you Jeff, so I don't want to make this sound nasty. But I'm so ****ing sick of those who write him off, quite clearly ont he strength of what they've heard of him or about him on the radio and in the press.

SIT DOWN AND LISTEN TO AN ALBUM, PAYING ATTENTION TO THE LYRICS. RINSE, REPEAT.

If you still don't like it, cool. Our opinions differ, and that's okay. But don't be so damned critical of soemthing about which you clearly know little. And don't tell me I have it all wrong and that you have already done what I suggest, because if you had, you may have been critical of him, but you would NEVER have mentioned him alongside a 'product' like Britney Spears.

</rant>

lucien

 

[Voldemort]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.PD This is good for Offspring if they stay non mainstream. Their latest album is really leaning toward a mainstream sound. I really hope they go back to the old style lyrics, and rhythm with the better production they have now. That would be a progression.

I think Offspring actually sold out with americana, Smash was a great album, Ixnay on the hombre I've never really listened but Americana was too mainstream, the new album even more.

 

[KR...]

I think that it's funny that more crappy "music" was quoted in this thread than any other thread in the history of Head-Fi.

Of course, one person's **** is another gold, or something like that. Then sometimes, **** is just ****.

 

[TimSchirmer]

Quote:

Originally posted by lucien It saddens me to see you reference Eminem in the same sentence as Britney Spears. Take the blinkers off, stop listening to the singles on the radio, and listen to a full album of his. As a lyricist, and as an entertainer, he outclasses most. I don't know you Jeff, so I don't want to make this sound nasty. But I'm so ****ing sick of those who write him off, quite clearly ont he strength of what they've heard of him or about him on the radio and in the press. SIT DOWN AND LISTEN TO AN ALBUM, PAYING ATTENTION TO THE LYRICS. RINSE, REPEAT. If you still don't like it, cool. Our opinions differ, and that's okay. But don't be so damned critical of soemthing about which you clearly know little. And don't tell me I have it all wrong and that you have already done what I suggest, because if you had, you may have been critical of him, but you would NEVER have mentioned him alongside a 'product' like Britney Spears. </rant> lucien

Actually this guy has a good point...I am not a fan of eminem or anything like that ( in fact, I am betraying my deathrocker heritage just by writing this) ...I hate to say it, but I have more respect for him than other popular music stars because he doesn't deny being a sell-out. In fact, he revels in it, which is cool in a way.

 

[KR...]

He seems to enjoy selling out.

But, here's a question:

Are you more pissed off if a band or performer sells out and pretends that they didn't or if a band or performer sells out and is very up open about selling out and doesn't care if you know or know? Does it matter?

 

[royboy2k]

Yeah Weezer is definintely not a sell-out, it's just that their last two albums aren't (nearly) as good as their first two. It's as simple as that because they were never an indie band.

 

[royboy2k]

KR, regarding your question:

I would be equally pissed off in those situations, but isn't it also possible for an artist to not do either of those things and still make lots of money while still making good music?

 

[KR...]

Of course it is! Selling out doesn't mean making lots of money.

Selling out is just that , changing your sound and image in order to make lots of money.

 

[Mr.PD]

Quote:

Originally posted by Voldemort I think Offspring actually sold out with americana, Smash was a great album, Ixnay on the hombre I've never really listened but Americana was too mainstream, the new album even more.

I have yet to hear americana. Conspiracy of One is the album I'm not impressed with. Ixnay on the Hombre is very good. In fact that is the album that introduced me to Offspring. It has my favorite song-MOTA, this is one of a handful of cd's that I like every song on.

 

[radrd]

Can some one tell me the point of bitching about musicians selling out when that's what they did when they got their first record contract?

The goal of these "artists" is to make money. People without the talent to make money at their art don't ever sell out because no one is willing to pay. These artists found that people are willing to pay for their art. At the point when you guys claim that they "sold out," most of them changed their sound so they could make more money.

In America, every one is trying to make more money. Why shouldn't these artists as well?

 

[blink180tone]

Quote:

Originally posted by radrd Can some one tell me the point of bitching about musicians selling out when that's what they did when they got their first record contract? The goal of these "artists" is to make money. People without the talent to make money at their art don't ever sell out because no one is willing to pay. These artists found that people are willing to pay for their art. At the point when you guys claim that they "sold out," most of them changed their sound so they could make more money. In America, every one is trying to make more money. Why shouldn't these artists as well?

music is the ultimate form of freedom of speech. it is one of the best ways to get your thoughts and ideas across to a ****load of people. to me music is a personal form of expression which should be unique to that band or artist. and when they conform to society's standards in order to make more money, they deserve to be ostricized.

i believe that the majority of the great bands and artists out there never got into the buisness for money. they wanted to share their talent with anyone who would listen. i am almost outraged when you say that the goal of the musical artist is to simply make money. i feel that idea is very close minded, music is not about money. let me put that another way; GOOD music or TALENTED music is not about money. for example, how many bands' music do you love that you never hear on the radio, on MTV, on a TV commercial?? i can name at least 30, and i know there are people out there who can name hundreds more. i understand that bands get a paycheck (at least the fortunate ones do) but i do not believe that talented artists give up their freedom of expression for a green piece of paper with a dead president on it.

my suggestion to anyone wanting more money is to invest. if your initial motive for making music is money, you'll suck, and although many people will buy into it, the majority of people like us will realize it and list you or your band on these pointless threads.


again we see this argument being raised because not everyone has the same idea of what selling out means

 

[radrd]

Quote:

i believe that the majority of the great bands and artists out there never got into the buisness for money.

So, you don't think that EVERYONE would like to get paid for doing what they love? Get real.

Quote:

they wanted to share their talent with anyone who would listen. i am almost outraged when you say that the goal of the musical artist is to simply make money.

Seeing how concerts are usually free, CDs are so inexpensive, most bands don't need agents, and rock stars lead such humble lives, it makes sense that most artists don't care about money.

Quote:

i feel that idea is very close minded, music is not about money.

Music is about sharing a message. If someone loves to share their message and someone else is willing to pay for it, then that means music ends up being about money.

The only way it isn't is if you give free concerts and offer your music on the Internet for free or pay to have CDs made and distrubted, or at least sign to do it for free. Do you know any artists who do that? I'll give you a hint, they are poor and/or have other jobs (Billy Bob Thornton).

Unfortunately, here in America everyone thinks they need more money, myself included. I would love to get paid for playing video games because that is one of the things I like to do. If I could get paid for that, do you really believe playing video games would still just be for the sake of enjoyment, or would it be for the sake of getting paid.

These people are selling out because that is the best way they can keep making money doing what they love. They sold out when they managed to get a record contract, and they sell out when they change their music.

 

[Driftwood]

I gotta agree with carlo, there is no bigger sellout than david bowie. You've gotta respect the man though...

Driftwood

 

[blink180tone]

i understand both you points and ideas, but in my opinion that only holds true for bands and artists like eminem, britney spears, n*sync, ja rule, sean puffy combs, etc. they got into the buisness for one reason and one reason olny, money. bands like metallica, nirvana, led zeppelin, ratm, ect. starting making music because they had someting to say, and a paycheck is just something that comes along with a job. look at bands from 30 or 40 years ago, do you really think they got paid nearly the same amount as bands today do?? hell no, they got a fraction. ill say it again, talented bands begin making music because they love music, if they get blinded by money, then they sell out.

as far as concert prices being so high, you can say thank you to the concert promoters and the managers, not the bands. the bands have nothing to do with setting the price of concerts, cds, or even merchandise. it just comes along with the job.

and if you want to get paid for playing video game, go and do it. whats stopping you? i hear way too many people in the world saying that they would rather be doing this or that because that is what they truly love. then do it, grow a set, make some sacrifices and make yourself happy. in my experience life is about happiness not how big your paycheck is. ill say it again.....if you want more money INVEST!!! dont just let you money sit in a bank collecting dust, let it work for you.


please dont take anythig i said the worng way. i enjoy these disagreements becaues it gives two different points to one topic. hope to hear a reply