[theCanadian]

Keep in mind I'm looking for good sound on a budget. (AD700)

I'm looking at a Sound Card upgrade. I was wondering if it would be better to use my onboard optical SPDIF and get a DAC, or get something like a XONAR DX/D1.

Would the signal over onboard SPDIF have any quality loss versus that of a dedicated card? Common sense tells me there would be no difference.

I know onboard analog is pretty much crap, which is why I already have a dedicated Sound Card.

How much would I have to invest in a DAC for it to be worthwhile if I did go the optical route?

Thank you for answering these questions.

 

[Hybrys]

You can get a combo USB/TOSLINK/Coax DAC, such as the Zero DAC or DACMAGIC. (Two very different price ranges, and the DACMAGIC is a DAC-only device) From there, you can see which you prefer.

 

[muad]

+1 for external dac

Just went over to a friends house and we a/b his dedicated auzentech prelude vs optical out to my maverick d1 ($200)... now hes buying a maverick d1. There was no comparison. I wouldn't go with the dac magic since you're on a budget. Something like the zero dac, beresford or maverick d1 are all in one units, as in they also have headphone amps built in. They're all in the $200 range and are very customizeable to suit your tastes. Just do your research on which dacs work better with which headphones. I notice alot of guys here getting mixed results with different dacs/headphone amps.

good luck

 

[theCanadian]

A lot of my questions remain unanswered, but thanks for the insight.

 

[FallenAngel]

Unless your onboard has well timed, bit-perfect S/PDIF output, which it likely doesn't, you would benefit from a sound card that does.

A DAC must exist somewhere in your system, you choose where - be it internal to you rmotherboard, a soundcard or an external unit, but it MUST be there. A quality DAC is a good thing to consider.

Good luck with your search. Do search.

 

[muad]

Lol K well to answer your questions... You'd probably be very happy with some of the $200 dacs. As for quality loss over spdif... there shouldn't be any. If you're using wasapi/asio/kernel streaming the signal will be unmolested by windows. The only resampling you may get will be from you sound card, depending on the card. For example creative/auzentech can do bitperfect output though music creation mode (works perfectly). Some other cards can do it also. Cards like the xonar's can't do bitperfect. But they're resampling is very well done (from what I've read). Also external dacs will also pick up less noise. Whereas a sound card's analogue signal has much more interference to deal with from all the other components inside your computer. The spdif signal in theory is unaffected by outside interference, since it's digital.

I hope this helps? Any other questions.

BTW im using onboard optical out (not bit perfect) to my maverick dac and I can't hear the difference between that and my creative xfi titaniums bitperfect optical out. I eventually removed the sound card because of driver issues. With my onboard optical out I simply set my output to 16bit 44khz (cd quality) and that way no resampling will be done. If you have alot of 24bit 96k music then this wouldn't work. But to be honest I don't notice a difference with the very few 96k songs I have.

 

[theCanadian]

So what I'm getting is that there might be some minor differences between onboard SPDIF and having a really nice dedicated card, but not so much for an affordable card.

As far as DAC's go, I don't even know what to look for. Could I get some tips and pointers and a couple recommendations?

Last question (for now). Can I get a DAC that will serve AD700's properly for less than $100 USD?

 

[muad]

the nuforce dac, fubar dac are some popular ones among headphone users. Are you planning on using speakers with the dac or headphone only?

 

[muad]

here's a link to another headfi thread with every known dac listed by price...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/al...pt-2-a-325941/

edit: actually it's missing a few, also I was looking through the list and noticed the dacs below or around 100 had less inputs and less features. Not many below 100 support optical connections. I really think if you do some research and go for a $200 dac with your onboard optical you'd be very happy in the long run. I mean price doesn't always equal quality but in the budget dac market a hundred dollars can be a big difference...

 

[Hybrys]

Onboard optical out gets a bad rap. It should be the exact same as a dedicated card's optical out, if you use WASAPI/ASIO to stream directly to the card. Realtek HD Audio and Conexant SmartAudio both support bit-perfect playback from onboard to Coax/SPDIF.

 

[theCanadian]

WASAPI/ASIO <<< What's this and this >>> Conexant SmartAudio?

 

[muad]

wasapi/asio is a plugin for some audio programs and players to bypass the windows mixer. It was meant for music recording for low latency. Alot of people use either wasapi or asio to get bitperfect sound from their music player to the sound card without windows up/downsampling the music. Bitperfect or not, it's just one less thing molesting our music!

Hybris how do you get bitperfect from realtek audio? I never manged to and the internet told me it wasn't possible with the alc888. Unless you mean setting the output to what your music bit depth is. But my dac makes a specific sound when it receives a bitperfect signal and it never did.

 

[anetode]

For 200$ & under, a soundcard will provide the best value. An Asus Xonar STX or HT Omega Claro Halo both have good DACs and built-in headphone amps that should have no problem handling the AD700s.

If you're looking at the outboard DAC route, the sound quality improvements plateau around the 1000$ level. At that price you can find a DAC that has volume control, headphone amp and high immunity to jitter.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by muad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cards like the xonar's can't do bitperfect. But they're resampling is very well done (from what I've read).

This is not actually correct. The Xonar and other 8788 cards currently offer bit perfect audio and always have. What the current driver do not offer is auto sample rate adjust. You have to set the sample rate yourself:
16/44.1,16/48,24/96 or 24/192.
ASUS also announced they will be releasing auto sample rate drivers to the public soon. They offer auto sample rate and bit perfect output through ASIO. From what I have seen the latencies are much improved over the current released drivers.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by muad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hybris how do you get bitperfect from realtek audio? I never manged to and the internet told me it wasn't possible with the alc888. Unless you mean setting the output to what your music bit depth is. But my dac makes a specific sound when it receives a bitperfect signal and it never did.

My old mobo (Gigabyte AM2+ (GA-MA785GM-US2H) with Realtek ALC889A) was able to transfer bitperfect sound to a receiver via SPDIF as long as the sample rate was set, and I was using WASAPI. (99% of my music was/is 16/44.1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by theCanadian /img/forum/go_quote.gif Conexant SmartAudio?

Another type of onboard audio. Less common. Often used on laptops. Some say it's worse than Realtek HD chips/codecs.