[Cruelhand Luke]

Because balanced is snakeoil aka bs, and 3m cable indicates that the headphones aren't meant for mobile use (which they aren't).

At least T5 could be used on-the-go and as per my understanding, it's equipped with a shorter cable.

Of course headphones can be tuned with pads but if they don't intend for you to do so, then it's down to your own willingness to spend extra to get this feature. Perhaps you can afford to buy extra pads if you're willing to pay $999 for a pair of headphones. Typically luxury cars come with less equipment and has to be upgraded for significant amounts of money. Expensive =/= well equipped in many areas of life.

If you don't like it, return the headphones and buy something else.

Balanced isn't snake oil. In every device that ive had with the option of balanced or non, the balanced port delivers the power better. On all my balanced headphones, with all my balanced devices, the result is the same: the balanced option is preferable.

And of course the naysayers will respond and say it's 'confirmation bias' or whatever. Nope. I tested it. I took multiple sets of identical headphones (yes, I used to buy 2 sets every time I bought headphones, I would mod one set and either return or sell the other, but it was really helpful to have a stock headphone around when i was modding) and I listened back to back. With 3 different headphone models, played through 2 different daps and one amp, the results were the same: balanced output drove the headphones better.
It wasn't a huge difference, in fact a normal person wouldn't notice much difference, but I'm a headphone nerd, I could tell.

 

[plakat]

Balanced isn't snake oil. In every device that ive had with the option of balanced or non, the balanced port delivers the power better. On all my balanced headphones, with all my balanced devices, the result is the same: the balanced option is preferable.

And of course the naysayers will respond and say it's 'confirmation bias' or whatever. Nope. I tested it. I took multiple sets of identical headphones (yes, I used to buy 2 sets every time I bought headphones, I would mod one set and either return or sell the other, but it was really helpful to have a stock headphone around when i was modding) and I listened back to back. With 3 different headphone models, played through 2 different daps and one amp, the results were the same: balanced output drove the headphones better.
It wasn't a huge difference, in fact a normal person wouldn't notice much difference, but I'm a headphone nerd, I could tell.

As always that depends on the implementation. While balanced does have some inherent disadvantages like more noise floor diente two amp stages involved, of course it also delivers double the power, resulting in a volume increase. I’m sure you’re aware of that and corrected for it.

If you want to use balanced, feel free to do so. For very power hungry headphones it might be the only way to drive them appropriately. For high sensitivity headphones it just depends on the amp and it’s implementation.

I still think unbalanced is more versatile, and be it alone by universal availability.

 

[Disadadi]

Balanced isn't snake oil. In every device that ive had with the option of balanced or non, the balanced port delivers the power better. On all my balanced headphones, with all my balanced devices, the result is the same: the balanced option is preferable.

And of course the naysayers will respond and say it's 'confirmation bias' or whatever. Nope. I tested it. I took multiple sets of identical headphones (yes, I used to buy 2 sets every time I bought headphones, I would mod one set and either return or sell the other, but it was really helpful to have a stock headphone around when i was modding) and I listened back to back. With 3 different headphone models, played through 2 different daps and one amp, the results were the same: balanced output drove the headphones better.
It wasn't a huge difference, in fact a normal person wouldn't notice much difference, but I'm a headphone nerd, I could tell.

How much power do you need? T1 can handle 300mW at most. It's rare to find a desktop amp that cannot push 300mW into 32 ohm load without having to rely on balanced connector.

Sure it's good for portables to get volume, but that's it. Audio quality stays exactly the same. I don't care how it sounds with biased ears when all the measurements disprove this claim. I don't even generally support people who say the headphones need tons of "power" to be "driven correctly"

Otherwise I just don't know what to say. People need tens of watts of amplifier output capacity to run headphones rated at 0.3W??

And since most if not all headphones are far from perfect, and changes balancing might have will be negligible compared to the rest of the audio chain.

But of course, feel free to do what you want. There is a lot of subjectivity in audio, otherwise I wouldn't own these headphones for sure.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

Because balanced is snakeoil aka bs, and 3m cable indicates that the headphones aren't meant for mobile use (which they aren't).

At least T5 could be used on-the-go and as per my understanding, it's equipped with a shorter cable.

Of course headphones can be tuned with pads but if they don't intend for you to do so, then it's down to your own willingness to spend extra to get this feature. Perhaps you can afford to buy extra pads if you're willing to pay $999 for a pair of headphones. Typically luxury cars come with less equipment and has to be upgraded for significant amounts of money. Expensive =/= well equipped in many areas of life.

If you don't like it, return the headphones and buy something else.

The last line is the best part, "if you don't like it, return it and get something else ".
This reminds me of the people who tell you to leave the country if you dare complain about it. It's a weird defense.

I really like my T 1.3, in fact it's my favorite headphone. Once I get the cables, pads, filter mods, etc all sorted they'll be my endgame. I really like them, but I think that Beyerdynamic could have done better with the implementation. A couple of choices on the pads to tune the sound, a couple of choices on the cables to make them more versatile.
That's it, not a lot to ask out of a TOTYL headphone. I find the pushback a little odd, honestly.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

How much power do you need? T1 can handle 300mW at most. It's rare to find a desktop amp that cannot push 300mW into 32 ohm load without having to rely on balanced connector.

Sure it's good for portables to get volume, but that's it. Audio quality stays exactly the same. I don't care how it sounds with biased ears when all the measurements disprove this claim. I don't even generally support people who say the headphones need tons of "power" to be "driven correctly"

Otherwise I just don't know what to say. People need tens of watts of amplifier output capacity to run headphones rated at 0.3W??

And since most if not all headphones are far from perfect, and changes balancing might have will be negligible compared to the rest of the audio chain.

But of course, feel free to do what you want. There is a lot of subjectivity in audio, otherwise I wouldn't own these headphones for sure.

Its not about the T1 needing so much more power. From my primary source, (Hiby R5 ii) they sound better out of the balanced port, and the 4.4 feels a little more secure and durable than the 3.5.
My point is, for the asking cost of the T1, I think it's reasonable to want a 4.4mm balanced cable.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

Well said.

I want to add that the dampers in front of the drivers are an essential part of the tuning, they are there for a purpose. For whatever reason they chose to achieve the desired sound signature this way.

I, for one, am happy I would not pay for a balanced cable in the standard package: it would be completely useless to me. If one needs that cable, it’s readily available at a reasonable price. Or one can choose any third party cable that fits the bill. I don’t see much sense in packaging too many accessories by default, which will just increase the price and will not be used anyway in many cases.

Agree to disagree about the dampers in front of the drivers.
Of course this is personal preference, but for me, removing them was a free and immediate improvement in SQ.
I've spent a lot of hours modding headphones, I'm not going to go into my resume, but i know what I like and I have a pretty good idea how to get there. If the felt in front of the driver had been non-removeable, I was going to send them back.
As far as the cables and pads? They can afford to sell the DT1990 with twice the pads, and twice the cables, at half the cost? Hmm. I still say it's a mistake. Just because you prefer the very long 3.5 cable, doesn't mean you're right. You said you don't want to pay for an extra balanced cable you aren't going to use, but why should I have to pay for a 3.5 I'm not not going to use? Do you really think making both of us happy would have pushed the cost above that magical $1,000 price point?

 

[plakat]

Agree to disagree about the dampers in front of the drivers.
Of course this is personal preference, but for me, removing them was a free and immediate improvement in SQ.
I've spent a lot of hours modding headphones, I'm not going to go into my resume, but i know what I like and I have a pretty good idea how to get there. If the felt in front of the driver had been non-removeable, I was going to send them back.
As far as the cables and pads? They can afford to sell the DT1990 with twice the pads, and twice the cables, at half the cost? Hmm. I still say it's a mistake. Just because you prefer the very long 3.5 cable, doesn't mean you're right. You said you don't want to pay for an extra balanced cable you aren't going to use, but why should I have to pay for a 3.5 I'm not not going to use? Do you really think making both of us happy would have pushed the cost above that magical $1,000 price point?

Yes, I think so: the cable is sold at ca 150€ and near sourcing costs as their product manager told me (realistic given the components used and the effort). So yes, they can’t simply throw that in. It would be nice if you could choose the included cable at checkout of course.
The DT1990 is part of their studio lineup. Different division, different target audience, different calculation.
If you prefer removing the damping pads, feel free to do so. So this decision of Beyerdynamic is even in favor of your preferences: had they just tuned the driver differently, you would have a harder time changing that.

 

[Disadadi]

Yes, I think so: the cable is sold at ca 150€ and near sourcing costs as their product manager told me (realistic given the components used and the effort). So yes, they can’t simply throw that in. It would be nice if you could choose the included cable at checkout of course.
The DT1990 is part of their studio lineup. Different division, different target audience, different calculation.
If you prefer removing the damping pads, feel free to do so. So this decision of Beyerdynamic is even in favor of your preferences: had they just tuned the driver differently, you would have a harder time changing that.

And I think that a long, SE cable serves more customers as is than a balanced short cable would. I'm pretty sure they have made the research on what people generally want, hence the closed back version being supplied with the short cable.

Sad that it cannot satisfy everyone's needs, but that is life.

 

[Marcos Fontana]

This is exciting

 

[plakat]

And I think that a long, SE cable serves more customers as is than a balanced short cable would. I'm pretty sure they have made the research on what people generally want, hence the closed back version being supplied with the short cable.

Sad that it cannot satisfy everyone's needs, but that is life.

Exactly my point. I know who they were targeting, and those people don’t use or care about balanced (esp. not on an easy load like 32ohm). The longer cable for the open headphone for at home use, a shorter cable for the closed model for use on the go.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

I think some people are confused about what constitutes 'mobile use'.
It's as if there are only 2 ways to use a headphone:
1)get outside in the world, dicing it up, on the GO baby! On trains, in cafes? Get yourself a T5 with a short cable.
2) sit yourself down into that Eames Lounge, put your feet on the matching ottoman, plug your headphones into an amp, (well out of arms reach). Enjoy your T1.3.

I'm going to blow some minds, but there is a third way.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

This is my listening station. A hodgepodge of midfi, vintage, modded stuff. The leather seat is out of a 90's sports car.
When I want to just sit and listen to music, this is the spot.

The reality is, I live on a 42ft vintage sailboat. Most of my time listening to music isn't done here. I listen in my bunk at night when I'm going to sleep. I listen in the galley while I'm making dinner. In the summer, I sit out on the deck.
You can't tell me the T1.3 isn't a GREAT mobile headphone.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

And what about those 32ohm drivers? With the super efficient yet powerful Tesla magnets.And they're angled.... Have y'all noticed how the interior of the T 1.3 shares similarities in structure to the HD800?
I know I'm off on a rant here, but my point is all these things make for a headphone that is very amenable to hifi mobile use.

 

[Disadadi]

And what about those 32ohm drivers? With the super efficient yet powerful Tesla magnets.And they're angled.... Have y'all noticed how the interior of the T 1.3 shares similarities in structure to the HD800?
I know I'm off on a rant here, but my point is all these things make for a headphone that is very amenable to hifi mobile use.

That boat doesn't look like mobile use when you sit down in a private place.

But to each their own, if this is your version of it then whatever. It's still a fact that majority of the buyers couldn't care less about the things you're asking for and it'd be bad business to include those parts with the same msrp for the product. They realized that people will keep buying the product without those peripherals abd it's cheaper to produce... Go figure. Of course it would be nice for some, but overall a poor decision.

I don't need nor want more cables or pads than I have in use.

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

That boat doesn't look like mobile use when you sit down in a private place.

But to each their own, if this is your version of it then whatever. It's still a fact that majority of the buyers couldn't care less about the things you're asking for and it'd be bad business to include those parts with the same msrp for the product. They realized that people will keep buying the product without those peripherals abd it's cheaper to produce... Go figure. Of course it would be nice for some, but overall a poor decision.

I don't need nor want more cables or pads than I have in use.

I thought I was pretty clear, but I'll be more explicit.
I almost never sit with my favorite headphones plugged into an amp, stuck in one spot. 90% of my use I'm moving from the cabin, to the parlor, to the deck etc. I'm mobile.
I plug my balanced cable into my Hiby R5 ii, drop that into my pocket and go about my business. And? When the weather turns suddenly rough, I put the whole thing in a DT880 case, (it's more compact than the one that comes with T1) toss it in my back pack and I'm on shore and in a hotel before you know it. Mobile.