[Neotriple]

Quote:

If you mean signal loss from a 1/8 -1/4 adapter, no there will not be appreciable signal loss if the adapter is decently well made.

 
I was worried about any sort of diminished quality going from the 3.5 output to a dual 1/4" adapter (as the amp only has a single 3.5 output I would have to buy a 3.5 mm to stereo 1/4" adapter.
 
Also, I have 2 x Yamaha HSM80's as monitors.

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

 
I was worried about any sort of diminished quality going from the 3.5 output to a dual 1/4" adapter (as the amp only has a single 3.5 output I would have to buy a 3.5 mm to stereo 1/4" adapter.
 
Also, I have 2 x Yamaha HSM80's as monitors.

 
Heya,
 
Since they're powered monitors (active), you're just using line-level output from the DAC (the E10) to send a signal. You're not losing quality by going from 3.5mm TRS to dual 1/4th TRS. You can get a 3.5mm male to dual 1/4th males for this no problem. You can also use 3.5mm male TRS to dual XLR male since your monitors have both XLR and TRS.
 
Cables you could use:
 
3.5mm to dual 6.3mm
3.5mm to dual 6.3mm
3.5mm to dual 6.3mm
3.5mm to dual male XLR
3.5mm to dual male XLR
 
Also you can use your monitors and headphones at the same time doing this (the line out works all the time; and the headphone out works at the same time too; volume controls the headphone only). And this E10 lets you use headphones upwards of 300ohms without breaking a sweat, which opens your options.
 
Very versatile and powerful little device with a great DAC for a very attractive price.
 
Very best,

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

I presume you've compared them extensively on the same equipment?

 
Yes. And there were others who heard this difference on the same chain. It's not just me.
 
But given the choice, I'd choose the 250 Ohm over both of the other two options any day now. It's much easier to drive than the 600 Ohm, and the difference in sound quality is minor enough that I wouldn't mind losing a bit of clarity for volume.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 and the difference in sound quality is minor enough that I wouldn't mind losing a bit of clarity for volume.

 
Indeed, it apppears to be so minor that many Golden Ears can't hear it at all.

 

[devhen]

I agree. With Beyers I think you're more likely to notice manufacturing variances between a 250 ohm model and a 600 ohm model than an actual difference based on the impedances. That said, don't forget that headphones with different impedances can react differently to amplifiers (mostly based on the amplifier's output impedance).

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

Indeed, it apppears to be so minor that many Golden Ears can't hear it at all.

Quote:

I agree. With Beyers I think you're more likely to notice manufacturing variances between a 250 ohm model and a 600 ohm model than an actual difference based on the impedances. That said, don't forget that headphones with different impedances can react differently to amplifiers (mostly based on the amplifier's output impedance).

 
 
Yeah. I must admit that when we did the comparison, I had my JDS Labs O2 handy, and none of us could detect any appreciable difference between the 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm. But once we plugged them into a tube amp, we were able to pick out the differences quite audibly. The tube amp had significantly higher output impedance than the O2. I have read somewhere that higher load impedance causes less distortion for the amp, so that is very likely the reason.
 
But honestly, it was audible, and I'm not making this up for the sake of making the 600 Ohm look better (I don't even own the headphone anymore).

 

[devhen]

Quote:

 
Yeah. I must admit that when we did the comparison, I had my JDS Labs O2 handy, and none of us could detect any appreciable difference between the 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm. But once we plugged them into a tube amp, we were able to pick out the differences quite audibly. The tube amp had significantly higher output impedance than the O2. I have read somewhere that higher load impedance causes less distortion for the amp, so that is very likely the reason.
 
But honestly, it was audible, and I'm not making this up for the sake of making the 600 Ohm look better (I don't even own the headphone anymore).

 
That makes sense. But again, in this example its not that the 600 ohm version was shown to be technically superior, only that 600 ohm headphones work better with high output impedances. Some people get that confused (I'm not saying you do, obviously). I think there's a decent chance that, impedance matching aside, the 250 ohm and 600 ohm versions are equally capable.

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

 
That makes sense. But again, in this example its not that the 600 ohm version was shown to be technically superior, only that 600 ohm headphones work better with high out impedances. Some people get that confused (I'm not saying you do, obviously). I think there's a decent chance that, impedance matching aside, the 250 ohm and 600 ohm versions are equally capable.

 
No, I agree. I'm just saying that there is a difference between 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm given certain circumstances. But for any other case, 250 Ohm would be just fine.
 
And 250 Ohm is still a lot easier to drive to listenable volume than 600 Ohm, so the amp is less prone to clipping.
 
Like I said, given the choice again, I'd choose 250 Ohm over the other 2 versions easily.

 

[devhen]

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if, given a high output impedance tube amp like Bill-P mentioned, if you were to use one of the lower impedance 880s with an impedance adapter, would it perform just as well as the 600 ohm version or is there an inherent loss of quality when you use an impedance adapter (or maybe varying levels of quality based on the quality of the adapter used)?

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

While we're on the topic, does anyone know if, given a high output impedance tube amp like Bill-P mentioned, if you were to use one of the lower impedance 880s with an impedance adapter, would it perform just as well as the 600 ohm version or is there an inherent loss of quality when you use an impedance adapter (or maybe varying levels of quality based on the quality of the adapter used)?

 
I use a 500ohm adapter for my low impedance headphones for use with various amps. Works fine. The impedance is part of the cable and/or voice coil (most typically before the voice coil). It's not the driver or anything. I don't find that adding resistors really changes much. I have 600ohm headphones and 32ohm with the 500ohm setups. Unfortunately I don't have the same headphone, one 600ohm and one 32ohm (to use with the 500ohm adapter) to see if there's any real difference when it's an adapter versus it just being a resistor at the voice coil in stock form. I would think it wouldn't matter. I'll have to play around and see what I think. It's honestly too subtle to be clear about.
 
Very best,

 

[devhen]

Quote:

I use a 500ohm adapter for my low impedance headphones for use with various amps. Works fine. The impedance is part of the cable and/or voice coil (most typically before the voice coil). It's not the driver or anything. I don't find that adding resistors really changes much. I have 600ohm headphones and 32ohm with the 500ohm setups. Unfortunately I don't have the same headphone, one 600ohm and one 32ohm (to use with the 500ohm adapter) to see if there's any real difference when it's an adapter versus it just being a resistor at the voice coil in stock form. I would think it wouldn't matter. I'll have to play around and see what I think. It's honestly too subtle to be clear about.
 
Very best,

 
Cool. That makes sense. Thanks for the info.
 
Do you have any recommendations on impedance adapters or are they pretty much all the same?

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

 
Cool. That makes sense. Thanks for the info.
 
Do you have any recommendations on impedance adapters or are they pretty much all the same?

 
They're pretty much the same. You can get them for like $1 at parts express of basically nearly any impedance value. Just solder to the positive phase (I think?). Good to go.
 
I had an adapter made. XLR -> 500ohm resistance -> XLR so that I can adapt any of my headphones from a balanced source to have an instant jump in impedance to increase the load for the amplifier to match some of my lower impedance and more sensitive headphones to some of my more powerful and higher-gain amplifiers. Namely, speaker amps.
 
I also have a basic 3.5mm -> 75ohm cable -> 3.5mm from years ago. Also adds a little resistance in line for smaller setups.
 
Very best,

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill-P /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Yeah. I must admit that when we did the comparison, I had my JDS Labs O2 handy, and none of us could detect any appreciable difference between the 250 Ohm and 600 Ohm. But once we plugged them into a tube amp, we were able to pick out the differences quite audibly.

 
Ah, a vital piece of information surfaces! I know it will come as a shock to some, but many of us have no interest in tube amps for a variety of reasons--i.e,: cost, heat, light in a dim room, longevity, general fiddliness. So tube amps are completely irrelevant to us, and we really need to know when a tube amp is being referenced.

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

 
Ah, a vital piece of information surfaces! I know it will come as a shock to some, but many of us have no interest in tube amps for a variety of reasons--i.e,: cost, heat, light in a dim room, longevity, general fiddliness. So tube amps are completely irrelevant to us, and we really need to know when a tube amp is being referenced.

 
Thing is... DT880 sounds best with tube amps.
 
It sounds bland and overall very thin with solid-state amps. Especially the O2.
 
If you plan on doing any serious listening with DT880, then you want an amp that adds a lot of warmth and texture to the low-end of the headphones.

 

[pp312]

I use the DT880 Pro with a NAD C326BEE with treble at -3db* and get a very accurate and satisfying sound on the hardest genre of all to get right--heavy orchestral/classical. The secret with the DT880 in my opinion is to get rid of that 5-8khz peak. In itself it simply adds sheen to cymbals, but it bleeds down into lower frequencies and creates a "glare", perhaps giving that "thin" sound. In any case you're right that amp matching is important, but that doesn't necessarily mean tubes. The NAD has a slightly bass heavy, mid-centric sound (like most NADS) that exactly suits the DT880s opposite tendencies. I couldn't find quite that right balance until I tried the NAD.
 
*The NAD's treble control only works at extreme frequencies.