Beyerdynamic DT 990 - so far unimpressed

[xaval]

   
IMHO, they most certainly should be, as one of the most natural sounding headphones out there anywhere near their price. Would you suggest the K701/702 as pro headphones? Well, taking 990's off and putting K701's on makes them sound a bit plasticky in the mids in comparison, although very, very similar overall. Basically, DT990 is like the improved version of a K701, with more natural and realistic mids and a more realistic bass quantity. 
They're better than K701's for studio use in every single way, yet, most people would still recommend then K701's instead. They might be a bit bass heavy (although light years away from the "bassy" or "muddy" descriptions) at first if you come from the usual studio headphones with thin bass and poor bass extension, but with a good amp and source, they're as natural and real sounding as it gets for the price. HD650's have more bass for example, yet people don't call them bass heavy.  Even T1's are not exactly bass light compared to 990Pro's.

I respect your opinion although I don't think I'd agree with a single sentence out of what's up there 

 
From the little information I've managed to gather from pro boards because I have an interest on knowing how the guys doint the studio work listen to their own creations, I don't think I ever remember anyone working in a studio earning he's pay with a DT990. Of course, I could be wrong as there so many pro studio guys out there.

 

[Macedo]

I can't agree with that and the DT990pros are my only "Hi-Fi" headphones. You can't mix for speakers using headphones. We don't live in a perfect world, most people will be listening to your music with home theatre sound systems, cheap stereo speakers or apple earbuds. That defeats the purpose of using headphones for mixing or mastering because we are 5% of the people of earth how give a **** about a balanced sound and use high end headphones or speakers. Probably, if you use your headphones to mix, it will sound off and strange to another guy who has a pair of m50s. If you use a good set of studio monitors in a lightly sound treated room it will sound good to everyone the 95% who don't give a **** and the 5% who do. Your worries should be in composing the music, the arrangement of it and if you recorded it properly, if it doesn't sound good prior to mixing it won't sound good after it, that's why the people who mix and master are called engineers not magicians.
 
Sorry if I sounded rude, I apologise for that but I think we should be more concerned about the music not the sound. There are people here that should only listen to pulse waves.

 

[pp312]

  Sorry if I sounded rude, I apologise for that but I think we should be more concerned about the music not the sound.

 
 
That's true in general but not in this forum. In any case, since the music is transmitted through sound it's rather difficult to separate the two except as a trick of the mind, which most people have managed but we haven't, or why else would we be posting here? Obviously the sound is important to us, probably too much so. 
 
That said, I still think the closer you get to a realisic sound (to you), the closer you get to the music, and table radios be damned.  

 

[Ash Telecaster]

  I can't agree with that and the DT990pros are my only "Hi-Fi" headphones. You can't mix for speakers using headphones. We don't live in a perfect world, most people will be listening to your music with home theatre sound systems, cheap stereo speakers or apple earbuds. That defeats the purpose of using headphones for mixing or mastering because we are 5% of the people of earth how give a **** about a balanced sound and use high end headphones or speakers. Probably, if you use your headphones to mix, it will sound off and strange to another guy who has a pair of m50s. If you use a good set of studio monitors in a lightly sound treated room it will sound good to everyone the 95% who don't give a **** and the 5% who do. Your worries should be in composing the music, the arrangement of it and if you recorded it properly, if it doesn't sound good prior to mixing it won't sound good after it, that's why the people who mix and master are called engineers not magicians.

 
Sorry if I sounded rude, I apologise for that but I think we should be more concerned about the music not the sound. There are people here that should only listen to pulse waves.

Hi Macedo,
 
I apologize for the misspelling. My initial mix is always on a small set of book shelf speakers. I find that first mix rarely translates well to other medium. My next move is to listen in the car, then iPod, laptop, Fiio...etc. It goes back and forth. You know, when I listen closely to certain iconic recordings I am often surprised by how odd the sound stage is yet how the mix always translates well regardless of what I'm listening on. The Beatles are a great example. George Martin must have been half out of his mind and yet I can discern McCartney's bass lines even on cr@ppy little systems. Many other recordings the bass just disappears on those same systems. I was test driving these DT990's with a listen to Miles Davis; Kind of Blue. That album has it all, upright bass (extremely hard to record well), drums, a nice warm sounding Piano, and of course several horns. The sound stage on that recording is totally nuts...yet it works and sounds "live" no matter what your listening on. Of course you lose detail, breath, creaks, rattles, the sense of being in the same room with those guys on smaller systems but none the less it still translates well. I find that to be a difficult balancing act. It requires going back and forth and making compromises. And those compromises are important...however the thing that is most important to me with my own music is that I enjoy listening to the recordings close up. 

 

[Ash Telecaster]

  I respect your opinion although I don't think I'd agree with a single sentence out of what's up there 

 
From the little information I've managed to gather from pro boards because I have an interest on knowing how the guys doint the studio work listen to their own creations, I don't think I ever remember anyone working in a studio earning he's pay with a DT990. Of course, I could be wrong as there so many pro studio guys out there.

Know whats funny, studios are often equipped with mdr-7506's and HD280's. Both are deeply flawed headphones (IMO from an audiophile perspective, not a practical one). They serve their purpose very well. There is a big difference between studio monitoring and reference monitoring or critical listening.
 
My DT990's are improving as I break them in yet I don't think they are going to live up to my expectations. Of course my expectations were probably too great for this price range. I am thinking I will need to save a little and get on board with a higher end set up. At least for what I want them for.
 
As many have stated they have an EQ curve but honestly regarding the "tinny" remarks, well that just isn't happening...yet. Maybe they are defective, maybe they need to be broken in more. Besides the Fiio, I have a Furman 20 watt headphone amp. Perhaps not audiophile grade but certainly way more than enough to drive these cans and they still sound very warm to me. Right now I've got 2, 4 & 8k pushed up a tad to improve clarity. 

 

[xaval]

 
Know whats funny, studios are often equipped with mdr-7506's and HD280's. Both are deeply flawed headphones (IMO from an audiophile perspective, not a practical one). They serve their purpose very well. There is a big difference between studio monitoring and reference monitoring or critical listening.
 
My DT990's are improving as I break them in yet I don't think they are going to live up to my expectations. Of course my expectations were probably too great for this price range. I am thinking I will need to save a little and get on board with a higher end set up. At least for what I want them for.
 
As many have stated they have an EQ curve but honestly regarding the "tinny" remarks, well that just isn't happening...yet. Maybe they are defective, maybe they need to be broken in more. Besides the Fiio, I have a Furman 20 watt headphone amp. Perhaps not audiophile grade but certainly way more than enough to drive these cans and they still sound very warm to me. Right now I've got 2, 4 & 8k pushed up a tad to improve clarity. 

 
So DT990 aren't deeply flawed as well? 

 
Ask people who earn their wages doing their stuff with headphones (besides speakers) and see what they work with. Ask Bob Katz or Steve Hoffman just to check a couple of names which say a lot to both audio producers and audiophiles. I think will find a bit of preference regarding those AKGs you trashed and some Senn love.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/37066/exclusive-interview-with-bob-katz-great-reading
http://www.stevehoffman.info/gear.html
 
I have no further comments about this.

 

[Ash Telecaster]

   
So DT990 aren't deeply flawed as well? 

 
Ask people who earn their wages doing their stuff with headphones (besides speakers) and see what they work with. Ask Bob Katz or Steve Hoffman just to check a couple of names which say a lot to both audio producers and audiophiles. I think will find a bit of preference regarding those AKGs you trashed and some Senn love.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/37066/exclusive-interview-with-bob-katz-great-reading
http://www.stevehoffman.info/gear.html
 
I have no further comments about this.

 
Of course the DT 990's are flawed as well, hence this thread.
 
I'm confused, I never trashed the AKG's. You must be thinking of somebody else. I only said they have been recommended to me but I haven't had the chance to audition any.
 
I appreciate the links, I'll check them out.

 

[Ash Telecaster]

So the story continues....
 
I am surprised. I have been pumping music through these phones all weekend. Putting them on this morning the characteristics of this headphone have improved dramatically. I would have believed it if I didn't hear it for myself.

 

[Ash Telecaster]

...So keeping a positive attitude and continueing to pump music through them to break them in I have finally and simply come to the conclusion they do not live up. The one thing I haven't tried yet, which I am hoping is the answer is driving them with an amp. Perhaps my Fiio X3 just isn't cutting it for driving these cans.
 
Last night I turned off the lights put on some reference material that I am very familiar with just kept wishing I could hear the vocals better, and the guitars, and the keyboards and most things whose primary notes fall in that essential mid to upper mid range spectrum. I was in a wash of messy bass mud. So I cranked up the treble but just left the mids in a hole and the critical elements of the music were for the most part lost.
 
Now I did buy these off ebay. It is possible I got a defective pair, or they could be a fake. They look real though and so does the packaging. I am going to try a critical listening test with an amp before making my final judgement.
 
Since breaking in they are much much much better but honestly I'm pretty seriously disappointed at this point. I would much rather listen to my M50's or my V-Moda M80's. They are both bass heavy but you can hear the entire spectrum. I am assuming it is because the M50's are something like 32 Ohms compared to the DT990's 250 Ohms.
 
Sure wish I could make it out to Denver Oct 10th. I would love to give a range of cans a real test drive then just save for the ones I want regardless of the cost. Opinions are great but I hate needing to rely on them exclusively.

 

[jdpark]

Obviously you need a an amp! That's not an opinion, it's a fact. If you want to get the minimum potential out of these phones you need an amp. And the better the amp, the better you will like these phones, guaranteed. 
 
You cannot make a learned opinion about them until you've listened to them with a good headphone amp. 
 
The minimum to start is the Schiit Vali, but from there you can try almost any good quality amp solid state, tube, or hybrid, and you will notice a huge difference.
 
I have A/Bd them using the Fiio E10, the Schiit Magni, and the Lehmann Rhinelander, all of which I own, and I can tell you the differences are huge.
 
This is not pseudoscience, you can see from the graph of the impedance vs. frequency that the DT990 250ohm version is nearly 400 ohm in the bass frequencies.
 
Therefore if you want to have bass that approaches what it should be, you need an amp that can comfortably drive, say, 600 ohms.
 
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=2141&scale=30 

 

[Ash Telecaster]

Wow, well that gives me hope. Great graph, and it does look pretty definite.
 
I appreciate the input. I am a gear-aholic any way, so now it's time to shop for an amp!

 

[pp312]

  Wow, well that gives me hope. Great graph, and it does look pretty definite.
 
I appreciate the input. I am a gear-aholic any way, so now it's time to shop for an amp!

 
And don't forget, jdpark has GUARANTEED that an amp will cure all your problems, which of course means that if it doesn't jdpark will happily--happily, I say--reimburse you for what you've spent. Now that's an offer no one could refuse.  

 

[CarstenF]

Obviously you need a an amp! That's not an opinion, it's a fact. If you want to get the minimum potential out of these phones you need an amp. And the better the amp, the better you will like these phones, guaranteed. 

You cannot make a learned opinion about them until you've listened to them with a good headphone amp. 

The minimum to start is the Schiit Vali, but from there you can try almost any good quality amp solid state, tube, or hybrid, and you will notice a huge difference.

I have A/Bd them using the Fiio E10, the Schiit Magni, and the Lehmann Rhinelander, all of which I own, and I can tell you the differences are huge.

This is not pseudoscience, you can see from the graph of the impedance vs. frequency that the DT990 250ohm version is nearly 400 ohm in the bass frequencies.

Therefore if you want to have bass that approaches what it should be, you need an amp that can comfortably drive, say, 600 ohms.

=2141&scale=30]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=2141&scale=30 

I'm not sure that graph proves anything. The 990 Pro are fairly efficient headphones - even an iphone 4 can drive them to sufficient volume levels. With the X3, the low gain setting actually sounds better than the high gain setting in my opinion and the. X3 in low gain sounds better ( less noise, more detail) with the Dt990 Pro than connecting an extra amp to the line-out of the x3.
The DT990 Pro have some bass but if you want a really strong bass you'll need to try Philips X1....
DT990Pro is good in its price range but there are lots of headphones out there and personal preferences vary greatly. Some people don't like the Beyer peak and find consonants sound too sharp (the "s" especially), others like its treble sparkle.

 

[Head Injury]

I'm not sure that graph proves anything.

That particular graph doesn't prove anything, no. All it means is the DT990 will receive less power where the impedance peaks, with a given voltage. This is true regardless of what amp is being used and has nothing to do with how powerful the amp is. A graph of the headphone's sensitivity in dB/mW would have to have a similar curve, meaning the DT990 also gets more volume with a given amount of power at that frequency, otherwise the frequency response would be screwed up. Simply put, having a curved impedance response doesn't mean the headphone needs a more powerful amp.
 
The 250 ohm Beyers are fairly insensitive headphones overall though, and will need a healthy amount of voltage for high volume, more than Sennheiser HD600-800 for example from the measurements I've seen. They can be powered by an iPhone or X3 as long as you don't need to crank the volume up. But I would recommend something with 2.5 to 3 Vrms to cover all bases.