Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO // DT 1990 PRO MK II -- Impressions Thread

[Chastity]

I popped them off with a flat screwdriver. Putting them on, they are keyed, and pop in, then you give it a turn clockwise. You can try doing a turn counter-clockwise to see if they release.

 

[SuperFreak]

I agree, but the price paid is that transients are dulled. Not a good trade-off IMO. I much prefer the Analytical pads. I can't tolerate the Balanced pads.

I'm not sure if the transients and attack are dulled so much as you can now hear they are dull without the stock pads. I noticed this problem as well, so rather than add more (different) foam I removed the foam disk. WOW! Unfortunately the bass is attenuated but the rest of the spectrum is reproduced with unbelievable detail.

So I thought I found a Joe Grado HP 1000 killer. [My Grados aren't stock either. I found them too dark so I use pads with no foam in the center and love them]. However, when comparing the HP1000s to the 1990s with Dekoni Elite Velour pads I found the sound to be very similar except the top octave is attenuated on the Grados. The 1990s win by an octave.

The next step was obviously the Hybrid pads without foam disks. With those the bass returns along with a bit of an 8kHz peak and the top octave is rolled off a little too.

I find using the Hybrid pads without foam disks to be great for listening and an excellent substitute for the B pads. If you are really trying to analyze the music (other than the bass), I find the Velour pads to be the best, as I hear things that I haven't heard before on headphones.

I have been here for a long time, but this is only my second post. My first was to say what I was using on my Grados. The reply was I should get original pads. If anybody tried my suggestion, they didn't post about it. I'm hoping that some of you who already have these pads will give them a try without the foam disk and post their thoughts.

Thanks for a great thread!

 

[Chastity]

Not using foams is an option with Dekoni pads, due to the pads come with a dust cover for the drivers. I wouldn't do this with pads that have no dust covers.

 

[SuperFreak]

Not using foams is an option with Dekoni pads, due to the pads come with a dust cover for the drivers. I wouldn't do this with pads that have no dust covers.

I think that is the reason they put the screen in the middle of the pads. Brainwavz does it too. I have a pair of their Hybrids on my K 340s where the mod was to remove the plastic screen and drive them balanced, so I should give them a try on the 1990s as well. The 340s are nice but difficult to drive and they don't get very loud before overloading. I had them for 30 years before I figured out they needed to be driven with a < 1 ohm source to shine.

You have both of the Dekoni pads so how about giving them, or at least the Hybrids, a try with no foam. I'll say this much about the Velour Elites with no foam on the 1990s, I will never master again without running the master though them as a sound check. The 1990s have replaced the HP1000s for this.

 

[Terriero]

I'm not sure if the transients and attack are dulled so much as you can now hear they are dull without the stock pads. I noticed this problem as well, so rather than add more (different) foam I removed the foam disk. WOW! Unfortunately the bass is attenuated but the rest of the spectrum is reproduced with unbelievable detail.

So I thought I found a Joe Grado HP 1000 killer. [My Grados aren't stock either. I found them too dark so I use pads with no foam in the center and love them]. However, when comparing the HP1000s to the 1990s with Dekoni Elite Velour pads I found the sound to be very similar except the top octave is attenuated on the Grados. The 1990s win by an octave.

The next step was obviously the Hybrid pads without foam disks. With those the bass returns along with a bit of an 8kHz peak and the top octave is rolled off a little too.

I find using the Hybrid pads without foam disks to be great for listening and an excellent substitute for the B pads. If you are really trying to analyze the music (other than the bass), I find the Velour pads to be the best, as I hear things that I haven't heard before on headphones.

I have been here for a long time, but this is only my second post. My first was to say what I was using on my Grados. The reply was I should get original pads. If anybody tried my suggestion, they didn't post about it. I'm hoping that some of you who already have these pads will give them a try without the foam disk and post their thoughts.

Thanks for a great thread!

Which foam discs are you referring? The original installed in the 1990 or the Amiron Wireless ones?

 

[audiobomber]

I'm not sure if the transients and attack are dulled so much as you can now hear they are dull without the stock pads. I noticed this problem as well, so rather than add more (different) foam I removed the foam disk. WOW! Unfortunately the bass is attenuated but the rest of the spectrum is reproduced with unbelievable detail.

You may not be sure, but I am sure the transients and attack are dulled by the Dekoni EV pads, not the stock pads.
Removing the foam takes the sound in the opposite direction from where most of the pad modders here want to go. They are cutting the highs with EQ, or adding thicker foam pads, not removing them.

 

[SuperFreak]

Which foam discs are you referring? The original installed in the 1990 or the Amiron Wireless ones?

I'm referring to removing any foam disk and just using the Dekoni's with the built in mesh. With the Dekoni Elite Hybrid there is still a peak at 8kHz but there is also extension on the high and low end along with higher max SPL. They just light up this way. I can understand wanting to get rid of the peak but not at the cost of detail and transients. Using an EQ, a 2 dB cut at 8kHz and another cut in the bottom octave by 2 dB yields flat response with great detail if that is what you are looking for. With no EQ they have a more exciting sound with the boost in the bottom octave and another at 8kHz.

edited: 5 dB cut at 8k to 2 dB. (mistype and no glasses)

 

[SuperFreak]

You may not be sure, but I am sure the transients and attack are dulled by the Dekoni EV pads, not the stock pads.
Removing the foam takes the sound in the opposite direction from where most of the pad modders here want to go. They are cutting the highs with EQ, or adding thicker foam pads, not removing them.

I'm being serious, so please don't take this the wrong way.

If that is the case, why not just put a little cotton in ones ears. The amount of cotton can be adjusted to ones sonic preference. I used to put cotton in my ears to cut down on the high frequency noise when I lived in New York City. It works great and when you take it out your ears have tuned to stop cutting high frequencies which makes for a good live music experience. Luckily, I don't live in the city anymore so my ears don't need the cotton.

The thing one has to remember is whatever baffles they are using to cut the 8kHz peak will also cut everything above. As the DT1990s are stock, they have an 8dB peak at 8kHz and are 6dB down in the top octave. Any further baffling will reduce the higher frequencies more than the target frequency, so the top octave would be down by more than 12 dB if something is used to baffle the 8kHz peak. Transient attack is an infinitely high frequency, so if you lose high frequency response the attack goes as well.

Personally, I'm completely blown away by both the Dekoni Elite Velour and Elite Hybrid pads without a foam disk on the DT1990s. The two pads have very different sonic signatures, but I find both very useful for professional work and listening. While the Elite Velours without foam disks reduce the low frequencies a lot, they also bring high frequency information and attack to a level I haven't heard before. The Elite Hybrids are more balanced but also have incredible response below 40Hz that my main system isn't capable of and all this out of a $500 headphone plus $115 for two sets of ear pads. If the 8kHz peak bothers people and they don't want to EQ, I would recommend the passive inline filters offered on Diy Audio Heaven. If one wanted to dial it to their personal preference they can replace the resistors with I k ohm linear pots and adjust them to their liking. Once they have found the sweet spot, they can measure the resistance the pot is set at and replace it with a good resistor of similar value. This filter only cuts the 8kHz peak and doesn't effect the rest of the spectrum, so the top octave and attack isn't lost as with more foam or cotton in the ears.

 

[Terriero]

@SuperFreak, have you tried the Amiron Wireless foam pads with the balanced or analytical pads included with the 1990s or with the aftermarket Dekonis you have? Next month I will receive them and will try with standart pads and in the future I would try the Dekonis you commented.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I will try the Dekonis without the foam pads to see if I like the sound

 

[SuperFreak]

@Terriero, Thanks for listening. I look forward to what you hear.

I didn't try the wireless foam disks. After I read here about them I looked over at DIY Audio Heaven and compared the frequency response charts of the Amiron Home and Wireless. After already not liking the sound with the original foam disks and seeing there is further HF reduction with the Wireless version, I wasn't interested.

The blue line is the Home and the red line is the Wireless. The differences in the low end are probably due to changes in the back venting, but look at the top 3 octaves. They are even more rolled off with the Wireless than the Home model and that, I would think, was a result of the different foam disk.

 

[Cevisi]

@Terriero, Thanks for listening. I look forward to what you hear.

I didn't try the wireless foam disks. After I read here about them I looked over at DIY Audio Heaven and compared the frequency response charts of the Amiron Home and Wireless. After already not liking the sound with the original foam disks and seeing there is further HF reduction with the Wireless version, I wasn't interested.

The blue line is the Home and the red line is the Wireless. The differences in the low end are probably due to changes in the back venting, but look at the top 3 octaves. They are even more rolled off with the Wireless than the Home model and that, I would think, was a result of the different foam disk.

here is a measurment off the foam disc with elite velour vs the stock b pad

i will give it a try without any pad

i think it can be great for mixing without any foam pad but for somone like me in the early tweenties the sizzling of the sibilance even with the stock foam is just anonying and covers any detail yea i could eq the 8k peak but some how the wireless foam disc has better imaging and soundstage for me what is more of a benefit for my use case

 

[SuperFreak]

Thanks for the graph. It isn't as bad as I thought it would be but as you can see there is less content over 10 kHz when what is needed is more.

To be honest I have never tried the A pads. I bought these after researching and when I looked at the waterfall graphs at DIY Audio Heaven, I saw there was not only a peak at 8Khz but a lot of ringing on both the A and B pads. In fact there is a lot of ringing at 4.5 kHz, 8 kHz and 16 kHz. With the Dekoni Elite Velour, the ringing has been damped almost completely, also shown in the graphs. I burned them in for a week with the B pads, listening for a few minutes once a day. While I heard improvement, the ringing at 8 kHz rendered them unlistenable for me. Not only was there a huge peak but it was heavily smeared in time. After a week, I gave the B pads a real chance. Then I put the Elite Velour pads on and gave them a serious listen as well. My findings were well established in the beginning. The Elite Velour pads took care of the peaks and the ringing, but there were issues with attack and clarity; the sound was liquid. They sounded like Sennheisers with more bass to me. My first thought was there is foam in both the Sennheisers and the Beyers so perhaps that is the culprit, and I removed the foam. At that point they sounded unbelievably good except they no longer had the intoxicating bass, so I decided to order the Elite Hybrid pads and that is my story of the three bears, I mean pads.

I didn't notice the peaks with the Elite Velour pads with or without foam disks. The difference I noticed was without the foam disks, the SPL increased all the way down to 1 kHz leaving the bass anemic and above 10 kHz it was clear as a bell and relatively flat. This is a big bonus because most transducers have difficulty in that region. Manufacturers don't worry about it because most listeners either can't hear it or they don't care. What they don't want is a lot of ringing up there which people will care about. However, as described in the white paper for the Tannoy super tweeter, any roll-off or peak causes phase shift so the transducers will sound much better if the response extends beyond the range of hearing. Another interesting aspect of this is it doesn't matter if it is mechanical or electronic so mechanical problems can be corrected with electronic solutions as long as the electronic fix causes a phase shift. This rules out FIR digital filtering as a fix, but IIR filters work great for this. I haven't read that white paper in over 20 years and I may be adding the bit about electronic filters, but I know them well and this is what they do. Given this, the extension in the lows and highs of the DT1990s makes them sound clearer even if there is no signal in that range and that is another reason I really like the DT1990s with Dekoni Elite Hybrid pad and no foam disk. However, to achieve the best sound they have to be EQed in the bottom and 8 kHz octaves, at which point, I don't think anything could sound better. I continue to be completely blown away. They also are capable of getting really loud without distortion; like ear damaging loud. They aren't as loud as the Grado HP 1000s but they are louder than they should be used.

Drop kept sending me emails about the new Dekoni Foam HF filter pack and I finally bought them when they said they were running out. However I don't plan to try them on the Beyers because as I stated somewhere, you can't control an 8 kHz peak with foam without attenuating everything above it which will cause phase shift.

I am far from my 20s, but my hearing is still excellent. I was at an ENT last year and I asked for a hearing test. The doctor said: "I see you haven't been exposed to many loud noises in your life". I didn't answer because that was far from the truth. When I asked him for more detail on the results he told me I have a slight dip at 5 kHz in my left ear. I like to listen to music loudly and I particularly don't like peaks in the 5-8 kHz range. I find them very annoying, and a lot of recorded music has a peak in this area. When mastering I am very careful with peaks but you have to have really good speakers or headphones to hear this correctly.

I have no way of measuring headphones, and even if I did everybody's outer ears are different so there really is no reference for that particular frequency range on headphones. I adjusted the 8 kHz cut listening to tape hiss. I am very familiar with 15 IPS tape hiss so it was easy to tell if there was a peak or a dip. Anything more than 3 dB caused a noticeable dip in the hiss with 2 dB having an almost unperceivable peak (except at maximum volume) with my ears. Someone else's ears will be a little different.

I have to add that I use those Tannoy super tweeters, which I believe are manufactured by Focal, on my mid field system which consists of a pair of Focal powered subs toped by a pair of Tannoy System 600s and a pair of the super tweeters. They are also wide band, very clear sounding and except for the deep bass they sound similar to the Beyers with the Hybrid pads and no foam disk. I don't think my big system goes that deep and it has a Kinergetics sub that consists of 10 x 10 inch drivers. They come in a pair with 5 on each side and were designed to compliment planar magnetic speakers. They sound better as a single sub, but I've been told two pairs of them is the best. Unfortunately, I don't own a second set. Here are some photos and a description.

I hear the soundstage much better on the Tannoys than I have heard on headphones. The Tannoys sound like the stage is bigger than my room, so for sound stage I have to defer to speakers rather than headphones.

 

[audiobomber]

I don't feel any great compulsion to change the sound of the Analytical pads, they are awesome as is. Yes, they are analytical and unforgiving, but that is what they are designed to be. The tuning is not a mistake, it is what the Beyerdynamic engineers intended; headphones that show exactly what is happening, in the recording and in the partnering gear. The DT 1990 with Analytic pads, through my exaSound e32 Mk II DAC, is heavenly. Sure, they show up flaws in my Modius DAC, but that's OK, I have Grados for that system.

 

[SuperFreak]

I don't feel any great compulsion to change the sound of the Analytical pads, they are awesome as is. Yes, they are analytical and unforgiving, but that is what they are designed to be. The tuning is not a mistake, it is what the Beyerdynamic engineers intended; headphones that show exactly what is happening, in the recording and in the partnering gear. The DT 1990 with Analytic pads, through my exaSound e32 Mk II DAC, is heavenly. Sure, they show up flaws in my Modius DAC, but that's OK, I have Grados for that system.

Sure Beyer knows what they are doing as do most of the other headphone companies. If you look at FR response charts of most modern cans, you will find similar FR response, so that is nothing special. I've often wondered why most modern headphones sound that way and the only thing I can assume (someone else thought of it) is they are trying to replicate the curve of a good condenser microphone, but since most recorded music was recording using a good condenser microphone we are getting a double peak which doesn't sound good.

I tried the A pads, but for only a short time. Here is what I found in comparison to the Dekoni Audio Elite Hybrid pads with no foam disk:

1) They are not in the least bit inspiring, which is why I only gave them a short listen. I don't find anything special about them and would have returned them if this is all I got.
2) They lack bass extension.
3) The 8 kHz peak is twice as big.
4) Moving faders in the various bands does little to change the sound and are, as a result of this and #5 very forgiving.
5) They are around 5 dB less sensitive and lack small details.
6) They are only $75 away from world class sound.

Associated gear:

PC or Mac > Antelope Pure 2 (only used as a clock and interface) > Audio gd Reference One DAC > Audio gd Master 9 preamp/HP amp

 

[Sphere 57]

Sure Beyer knows what they are doing as do most of the other headphone companies. If you look at FR response charts of most modern cans, you will find similar FR response, so that is nothing special. I've often wondered why most modern headphones sound that way and the only thing I can assume (someone else thought of it) is they are trying to replicate the curve of a good condenser microphone, but since most recorded music was recording using a good condenser microphone we are getting a double peak which doesn't sound good.

I tried the A pads, but for only a short time. Here is what I found in comparison to the Dekoni Audio Elite Hybrid pads with no foam disk:

1) They are not in the least bit inspiring, which is why I only gave them a short listen. I don't find anything special about them and would have returned them if this is all I got.
2) They lack bass extension.
3) The 8 kHz peak is twice as big.
4) Moving faders in the various bands does little to change the sound and are, as a result of this and #5 very forgiving.
5) They are around 5 dB less sensitive and lack small details.
6) They are only $75 away from world class sound.

Associated gear:

PC or Mac > Antelope Pure 2 (only used as a clock and interface) > Audio gd Reference One DAC > Audio gd Master 9 preamp/HP amp

When you say "no foam disc", do you mean you cut the center out of the Dekoni, or did you remove the foam from the headphones?, or both?