00264167
Head-Fier
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2008
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I thought I would write a brief comparison between these partly for anyone in the future deciding between them and partly to counter the recent hype surrounding the dt-150.
My setup is:
PC> USB connection to virus ti soundcard (this is a £1400 synth that can act as a soundcard, the headphone out is quite decent and has no problem driving high impedance phones).
Sound quality was evaluated with various tracks of trance, metal and some classical.
I have no bias towards any particular headphone or brand but for the music I listen to I prefer an open, brighter, detailed sound.
Beyer dynamic dt-150 (£97, 250 ohm) - there have been alot of reviews on this recently so I brought it as it sounded like it punched above its weight in sound quality for its price.
Construction is solid and sturdy with no weak parts, overall they’re quite comfortable but the ear pads aren’t as nice to wear as velour ones. The only other negative thing I’ve noticed about the construction is the ear cups don’t grip the metal of the headband tightly enough so one side is always fully extended. Style wise there is none…. they’re big and chunky with a touch of cold war East Germany about them, I quite like the industrial look but I wouldn’t want to wear them out.
sound: (after about 200hours burn in) the trouble with these phones is they are overly bassey and warm sounding, there’s a broad elevation of the bass that colours everything up to and including the mids and that how the sound is presented. The mids and trebles sounded ok, reasonably balanced but below the level of the bass so not as much perceived detail. From what i've read these phones were beyers response to the dt-100 not having enough bass and bass extension but it’s really been too overdone in the dt-150.
The result is a warm sound to everything and this only really benefits music that doesn’t suffer from a bit more body. It’s not so bad in classical but in electronic music the bass drum is too loud and if there’s a strong bass in the track it can overwhelm everything. With metal music it takes the edge and crunch of guitars and replaces it with a duller basseyness and to some extent a loss of the original intended tone. At times there was also a distinct boxeyness in the sound, this might be possibly due the deep square ear pads.
I also do some music production/mixing and the departure from the original tone is too great with these phones to use them and doesn’t sound like what your hearing out the speakers so it’s not a good representation of what the music is supposed to sound like.
For general music listening they’re ok if you don’t mind this colouration and like a warmer sound, they do add extra body to the music which you get used too and they aren’t that fatiguing to listen to. Personally I value accuracy, clarity, openness so I don’t rate the phones very highly but they are what you might expect at this price.
ultrasone pro750 (£180, 300 hours burn in plus almost a year of use) - construction: heavy plastics for the entire frame unfortunately, ball socket allowing them to fold flat, detachable screw in cable, a little creaky sounding in use. Tbh I worry about the plastic arms that hold each ear piece to the frame but there have been no problems yet and it all seems durable enough to last for years. There’s a separate 3.5mm adapter but I think the dt-150 was better where the 6.5mm jack unscrewed from the cable and the 3.5mm jack is under it.
Comfort - the head band puts a bit more pressure on the top of the head than the bayers but the velour ear pads are alot more comfortable.
Isolation is about the same as the bayers and they look ok to wear on public transport if you had to.
Sound - compared to the bayers they sound straight away is alot more open and the soundstage is bigger, the next big thing you notice is how much more balanced they sound.
In general the 750's have elevated but controlled bass but id say its less than 5db above and it’s not a broad bass elevation like the dt-150's. The 750's trebles are also slightly raised and I do believe I can hear a slightly recession in the mids although it’s hard to pinpoint. We all know ultrasones need alot of burning in and initially the trebles were harsh and piercing and the bass loud and more uncontrolled when new but a year on it sounds reasonably balanced but it’s definitely not flat compared to more neutral phones. The slightly elevated bass and treble are not to the extent of consumer tuned phones but give it a balanced musicality. The slightly recessed mids give it the classic eq scooped curve which gives electric guitars the lushness of scooped mids but still with the high end crunch.
Anyway there are plenty of threads that described the 750's sound but compared to the dt-150 it’s more balanced, open, detailed, cleaner, truer to the original recording, faster, more engaging and has more slam. It’s really another level above the dt-150 and i’ve got to say I much prefer it for both critical listening and listening for pleasure.
Sony sa5000 (£300, about 10 hours burn in). The Sonys construction is the best out of the three which would be expected for its much higher price. I was always a little disappointed with the ultrasone construction being all plastic and a bit creaky although quite solid, but the sa5000 has a lightweight metal frame (i'm not sure if the ear cup holders are metal too). Out the box the first thing that struck me was how significantly lighter it was than the other two.
It is also more comfortable to wear although the mesh headband has to be positioned towards the back of the head so the weight is on it rather than the metal frame holding it. The cable is lighter and doesn’t pull down as much as the other two. The pads are not flat to the driver but angled so they are thicker at the back. Because of the lightness and lack of pressure on the head you can sometime forget you’re wearing them. They look the best out of all of them but the semi-open nature limits where you can take them out of the house, there is some isolation though.
Sound: the sound is the most balanced out of the three and slightly clearer than the 750. sonically id say the bass is slightly too light, mids are fine as are the high trebles but I think there’s a small broad peak around 3khz which can make guitars sound not as good as they could be. Compared to the 750 the bass is certainly lighter although I don’t think it’s too far below neutral but bass drums should have a bit more volume and impact than they do. The dt-150s make the Sony sound positively bass anemic. The shortcomings of this are hidden by some music such as electronic music which already has a heavy bass, when it comes to metal it did show up more – what had sounded good on the 750’s (megadeth – extinction album) sounded too bass light and mid emphasized (although the sound is good after equalization).
Comparing the highs to the 750 it is clear the sonys are better being more balanced and natural and it made me notice the metallic sounding highs of the 750 in some electronic music that other users have mentioned, its like there’s a narrow band spike in the treble with a narrow band cut just below it that somehow sounds a bit unnatural when you notice it at times when it occurs. It’s not severe though and I never noticed it fully until a/b ing with the Sonys. Comparing with Sonys also made me hear the recessed mids others have claimed with the 750's, it’s difficult to hear until you get the right piece of music but with a sustained pad sound it was quite apparent. I had suspected this as not only do the 750s sound as if they have a mild classic eq scoop but it was always difficult to get some sounds mixed properly in a track, what sounded ok on the 750's was always too prominent on speakers but the sonys sound much more like what’s coming out the speakers and are easier to mix with.
I haven’t experienced any harsh treble, fatiguing, or terrible brightness as other users mentioned. I can see why some people don’t like the sound signature as it is quite neutral and there’s the small high-mid peak but for now I would say its closer to being neutral than it is to being bright. A little equalization does wonders though, just a small bass increase of about 5db between 50 and 200hz and a few db cut a 3khz puts the boogie factor back in for me and gets it sounding not too far off the ultrasones.
Conclusions: the bayers have their own bassy warm sound throughout a broad frequency range which colours the music more than it should for what is supposed to be a studio phone. It’s fine if you like that overly warm sound signature for just listening to music but it’s a big disadvantage for critical listening or music production which is why I’ll shortly be selling mine. Imo there’s nothing these phones can do that the pro750's don’t do alot better.
The 750s (once burned in) are much more balanced than the dt-150s but not completely neutral. Their own slightly boosted bass are more controlled, refined and don’t dominate the rest of the spectrum, together with a not so even slightly higher treble and lower mids combined with a decent amount of detail, slam and openness make them the best one for listening to all types of music out of the three, they seem to grab my attention when listening and never dull.
The sa5000 are the best phone both materially and sonically if you define best as being closest to flat but they don’t have as good soundstage as the 750's e.g. left-right panning isn’t as prominent. Although I prefer the 750's for listening to music I find I can get quite close to the 750's sound by eq’ing the sonys with the added benefits that they are more flatter and better for music production when I turn the eq off, however if music production and a need for neutrality wasn’t part of my life and I had to only keep one then id probably go for the 750's.
The physical lightness of the Sony is remarkable compared to the other two and adds alot to the comfort.
update: after more time with the sa5000 i prefer it to the ultrasone for trance/electronic, the scooped mids really sound weird on some trance tracks when going back to the ultrasone although the ultrasone is what i prefer for metal and rock.
My setup is:
PC> USB connection to virus ti soundcard (this is a £1400 synth that can act as a soundcard, the headphone out is quite decent and has no problem driving high impedance phones).
Sound quality was evaluated with various tracks of trance, metal and some classical.
I have no bias towards any particular headphone or brand but for the music I listen to I prefer an open, brighter, detailed sound.
Beyer dynamic dt-150 (£97, 250 ohm) - there have been alot of reviews on this recently so I brought it as it sounded like it punched above its weight in sound quality for its price.
Construction is solid and sturdy with no weak parts, overall they’re quite comfortable but the ear pads aren’t as nice to wear as velour ones. The only other negative thing I’ve noticed about the construction is the ear cups don’t grip the metal of the headband tightly enough so one side is always fully extended. Style wise there is none…. they’re big and chunky with a touch of cold war East Germany about them, I quite like the industrial look but I wouldn’t want to wear them out.
sound: (after about 200hours burn in) the trouble with these phones is they are overly bassey and warm sounding, there’s a broad elevation of the bass that colours everything up to and including the mids and that how the sound is presented. The mids and trebles sounded ok, reasonably balanced but below the level of the bass so not as much perceived detail. From what i've read these phones were beyers response to the dt-100 not having enough bass and bass extension but it’s really been too overdone in the dt-150.
The result is a warm sound to everything and this only really benefits music that doesn’t suffer from a bit more body. It’s not so bad in classical but in electronic music the bass drum is too loud and if there’s a strong bass in the track it can overwhelm everything. With metal music it takes the edge and crunch of guitars and replaces it with a duller basseyness and to some extent a loss of the original intended tone. At times there was also a distinct boxeyness in the sound, this might be possibly due the deep square ear pads.
I also do some music production/mixing and the departure from the original tone is too great with these phones to use them and doesn’t sound like what your hearing out the speakers so it’s not a good representation of what the music is supposed to sound like.
For general music listening they’re ok if you don’t mind this colouration and like a warmer sound, they do add extra body to the music which you get used too and they aren’t that fatiguing to listen to. Personally I value accuracy, clarity, openness so I don’t rate the phones very highly but they are what you might expect at this price.
ultrasone pro750 (£180, 300 hours burn in plus almost a year of use) - construction: heavy plastics for the entire frame unfortunately, ball socket allowing them to fold flat, detachable screw in cable, a little creaky sounding in use. Tbh I worry about the plastic arms that hold each ear piece to the frame but there have been no problems yet and it all seems durable enough to last for years. There’s a separate 3.5mm adapter but I think the dt-150 was better where the 6.5mm jack unscrewed from the cable and the 3.5mm jack is under it.
Comfort - the head band puts a bit more pressure on the top of the head than the bayers but the velour ear pads are alot more comfortable.
Isolation is about the same as the bayers and they look ok to wear on public transport if you had to.
Sound - compared to the bayers they sound straight away is alot more open and the soundstage is bigger, the next big thing you notice is how much more balanced they sound.
In general the 750's have elevated but controlled bass but id say its less than 5db above and it’s not a broad bass elevation like the dt-150's. The 750's trebles are also slightly raised and I do believe I can hear a slightly recession in the mids although it’s hard to pinpoint. We all know ultrasones need alot of burning in and initially the trebles were harsh and piercing and the bass loud and more uncontrolled when new but a year on it sounds reasonably balanced but it’s definitely not flat compared to more neutral phones. The slightly elevated bass and treble are not to the extent of consumer tuned phones but give it a balanced musicality. The slightly recessed mids give it the classic eq scooped curve which gives electric guitars the lushness of scooped mids but still with the high end crunch.
Anyway there are plenty of threads that described the 750's sound but compared to the dt-150 it’s more balanced, open, detailed, cleaner, truer to the original recording, faster, more engaging and has more slam. It’s really another level above the dt-150 and i’ve got to say I much prefer it for both critical listening and listening for pleasure.
Sony sa5000 (£300, about 10 hours burn in). The Sonys construction is the best out of the three which would be expected for its much higher price. I was always a little disappointed with the ultrasone construction being all plastic and a bit creaky although quite solid, but the sa5000 has a lightweight metal frame (i'm not sure if the ear cup holders are metal too). Out the box the first thing that struck me was how significantly lighter it was than the other two.
It is also more comfortable to wear although the mesh headband has to be positioned towards the back of the head so the weight is on it rather than the metal frame holding it. The cable is lighter and doesn’t pull down as much as the other two. The pads are not flat to the driver but angled so they are thicker at the back. Because of the lightness and lack of pressure on the head you can sometime forget you’re wearing them. They look the best out of all of them but the semi-open nature limits where you can take them out of the house, there is some isolation though.
Sound: the sound is the most balanced out of the three and slightly clearer than the 750. sonically id say the bass is slightly too light, mids are fine as are the high trebles but I think there’s a small broad peak around 3khz which can make guitars sound not as good as they could be. Compared to the 750 the bass is certainly lighter although I don’t think it’s too far below neutral but bass drums should have a bit more volume and impact than they do. The dt-150s make the Sony sound positively bass anemic. The shortcomings of this are hidden by some music such as electronic music which already has a heavy bass, when it comes to metal it did show up more – what had sounded good on the 750’s (megadeth – extinction album) sounded too bass light and mid emphasized (although the sound is good after equalization).
Comparing the highs to the 750 it is clear the sonys are better being more balanced and natural and it made me notice the metallic sounding highs of the 750 in some electronic music that other users have mentioned, its like there’s a narrow band spike in the treble with a narrow band cut just below it that somehow sounds a bit unnatural when you notice it at times when it occurs. It’s not severe though and I never noticed it fully until a/b ing with the Sonys. Comparing with Sonys also made me hear the recessed mids others have claimed with the 750's, it’s difficult to hear until you get the right piece of music but with a sustained pad sound it was quite apparent. I had suspected this as not only do the 750s sound as if they have a mild classic eq scoop but it was always difficult to get some sounds mixed properly in a track, what sounded ok on the 750's was always too prominent on speakers but the sonys sound much more like what’s coming out the speakers and are easier to mix with.
I haven’t experienced any harsh treble, fatiguing, or terrible brightness as other users mentioned. I can see why some people don’t like the sound signature as it is quite neutral and there’s the small high-mid peak but for now I would say its closer to being neutral than it is to being bright. A little equalization does wonders though, just a small bass increase of about 5db between 50 and 200hz and a few db cut a 3khz puts the boogie factor back in for me and gets it sounding not too far off the ultrasones.
Conclusions: the bayers have their own bassy warm sound throughout a broad frequency range which colours the music more than it should for what is supposed to be a studio phone. It’s fine if you like that overly warm sound signature for just listening to music but it’s a big disadvantage for critical listening or music production which is why I’ll shortly be selling mine. Imo there’s nothing these phones can do that the pro750's don’t do alot better.
The 750s (once burned in) are much more balanced than the dt-150s but not completely neutral. Their own slightly boosted bass are more controlled, refined and don’t dominate the rest of the spectrum, together with a not so even slightly higher treble and lower mids combined with a decent amount of detail, slam and openness make them the best one for listening to all types of music out of the three, they seem to grab my attention when listening and never dull.
The sa5000 are the best phone both materially and sonically if you define best as being closest to flat but they don’t have as good soundstage as the 750's e.g. left-right panning isn’t as prominent. Although I prefer the 750's for listening to music I find I can get quite close to the 750's sound by eq’ing the sonys with the added benefits that they are more flatter and better for music production when I turn the eq off, however if music production and a need for neutrality wasn’t part of my life and I had to only keep one then id probably go for the 750's.
The physical lightness of the Sony is remarkable compared to the other two and adds alot to the comfort.
update: after more time with the sa5000 i prefer it to the ultrasone for trance/electronic, the scooped mids really sound weird on some trance tracks when going back to the ultrasone although the ultrasone is what i prefer for metal and rock.
