[yanfeng]

I have narrowed my choice down to DAC1 and Mini-DAC, but find it very difficulty to decide between the two having no chance to audition both.
Since I have no plan to buy a decent headphone amp in the near future (my wallet would be quite exhausted with the purchase of one of them), my main concern is:
1. Whose headphone amp is better? (my most urgent question)
2. If I feed the Mini-DAC with signals from an M-AUDIO Transit via toslink, would it be the same sound quality as through Mini-DAC's built in USB transport? I mean, if they sound similar, maybe I should get a non-USB Mini-DAC to save money?
3. Which one is more jitter free? Well, this could be very difficult to answer...

I am currently using Sony CD3000, Shure E5C, with Echo Indigo.

Eagerly awaiting your opion. Thanks a lot!

 

[virometal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanfeng I am currently using Sony CD3000, Shure E5C, with Echo Indigo. Eagerly awaiting your opion. Thanks a lot!

My goodness, I have not heard the mini, but DO NOT buy the DAC1. I owned the CD3ks and tried them with the DAC1 for all of 5 minutes; much too bright.

I have read that apogee is warmer, but I have not heard it so someone else will have to help you with that one.

 

[EdipisReks]

from what i've read, i haven't heard the DAC-1, it's probably going to be a poor choice for use with the CD3k's. i love my CD3k's, but i definitely think they sound best when paired with nice tubes.

 

[yanfeng]

Wow, what prompt replies! Thanks EdipisReks and virometal, this does look the right place to ask questions.

I also read about how cd3k is too bright for DAC1. Well, if the amp in DAC1 is powerful enough, I can sell my cd3k to get an HD650, which seems more matched to the DAC1.

I guess the dac's in Mini-DAC and DAC1 are of the same quality, so it boils down to the amp part to me.

 

[Ferbose]

DAC1's XLR output is said to drive HD650 very well especially in balanced configuration. I have seen many posts on the subject but never heard it myself.

 

[the terabyte]

i didn't hear a huge difference between the USB input on my Mini-DAC and Transit->Toslink in. if anything i thought the USB was slightly better (more microdetail), though who knows with these things. however, the real reason i bought the USB version of the Mini-DAC (other than the fact that i got it for less than the price of the non-USB) was that M-Audio's drivers are horrible on OS X (this may not affect you) and the Mini-DAC happily uses the default USB Audio drivers. The other issue was having everything in one package (no need to worry about the toslink cable, et cetera). I'm a fan of minimalism and my current Powerbook -> Mini-DAC -> SA5000 setup is about as minimal as it gets, all while sounding great (i think the built-in amp is just fine).

I haven't heard the DAC 1 to compare, unfortunately. You should really find a place that carries them both (I failed at this) and try them out for yourself (or if you have a couple grand sitting around, do it right and buy them both to try in your own home).

 

[jpelg]

I have owned both the DAC1 & the Mini-DAC. I still own the Apogee. Regarding your questions:

1. Assuming you are not using an external amp, you cannot divorce the DAC section of these units from their amps. As a whole, both impact on their overall presentation. In general, I find the Benchmark forward sounding, somewhat bright, bordering on fatiguing when paired with the wrong components. While I find the Apogee very smooth, but can be slow sounding with the wrong components.

I find the Benchmark pairs well with Sennheisers & the Audio-Technica W2002's. The Apogee works very well with Grados, and the Audio-Technica W1000. I suspect (but have never heard) that the Apogee would also work well with the new Sony SAx000 line.

I've heard the Sony CD3000's through both, and don't like either combo. But then again, I've never heard a system they sound good on (imo).

2. & 3. I have a non-USB Mini-DAC, and use the optical input primarily. I did the same with the Benchmark when I had it. I don't find any appreciable difference between transports with either unit (although I've never heard the M-Audio). I've read good things about the Apogee's USB input as well.

As always, IMO & YMMV.

 

[yanfeng]

Thanks jpelg. Your answer is almost a seal on the question.
It's a pity my otherwise very good cd3000 does not fit the scene. I mostly listen to classical, so DAC1 plus HD650 might be a more favorable choice.

 

[Nomad]

I agree with the comments of virometal, Edipisrex, terabyte and jpelg. The XLR output suggestion from Ferbose is something to consider too (I tried it with a XLR Zu Mobius I have).

You probably should make your decision considering "matching system" issues and sonic signatures. If you are happy with your CD3000 and your wallet will be quite exhausted (the reason the headamp will have to wait), I think that Apogee is your ticket. I have it and it sounds great with grados and sony (not so great with Sens unless you are using Zu Mobius, althought not bad either). I listened to the Benchmark too and it is going to be too bright for your Sony.

Your very good CD3000 might not fit the scene if you want a Benchmark, but it sure does if you consider an Apogee.

Cheers

 

[yanfeng]

There are now two recommended combinations:
1. DAC1 + HD650
I've heard it. They compliment each other very nicely. I would have to sell my cd3000 for HD650 though.
2. MINI-DAC + cd3000
Havn't heard it. The brightness of cd3000 might compensate for the rolled off high of hd650.

Which combination might be more suited to classical?

It's interesting to see how DAC1 and MINI-DAC make the selection actually easier. Otherwise we will have to consider more choices of CD players, headphone amps, cables, etc.

 

[Feanor]

I feel I will also be facing this question in the future. So it seems the apogee+senn combo isnt advised? Is it too laid back? Also, doesnt the apogee have xlr outs? can you run the senn from them?

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanfeng There are now two recommended combinations: 1. DAC1 + HD650 I've heard it. They compliment each other very nicely. I would have to sell my cd3000 for HD650 though. 2. MINI-DAC + cd3000 Havn't heard it. The brightness of cd3000 might compensate for the rolled off high of hd650. Which combination might be more suited to classical? It's interesting to see how DAC1 and MINI-DAC make the selection actually easier. Otherwise we will have to consider more choices of CD players, headphone amps, cables, etc.

You can't be wrong with any of them. It is going to depend of the classical too. The 650 are very nice for classical, but the soundstage of the CD3000 is really something to consider as well.

It seems like you are very happy with your CD3000 so I would go for the Apogee instead to buy the HD650 in order to match the Benchmark. You might not like the HD650. Try to listen them before to sell your Sony just in case.

Cables can be something to consider too. HD650 with Zu Mobius is great from the Apogee. Not so with the standard one.

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor I feel I will also be facing this question in the future. So it seems the apogee+senn combo isnt advised? Is it too laid back? Also, doesnt the apogee have xlr outs? can you run the senn from them?

It is not too laid back. I would say somewhat slow sometimes. The apogee has XLR outs and it sounds great from them. I listened to HD650-XLR Balanced Mobius from the Apogee and sounds great. I only tried this combo only for a few minutes as I got a Baby Orpheus and I fell in love with electrostatics. The XLR Zu Mobius is still here but I'm not using it.

I don't know how good Senns sound with a XLR cable less "forward" than the Mobius, though.

Cheers.

 

[dshea_32665]

I will be able to give you a good impression of classical music with Apogee and HD650/Zu/XLR in a day or two. HD650/Zu is a phenomenal combination for classical music which is mainly what I listen to. I am a professional classical musician and the presentation is quite striking and very much feels close to a live performance. Unfortunately, my Apogee arrived before my Zu cable has, so I have yet to try this DAC with the combination, but I suspect it will be great. It sounds amazing with my Ety 4S (bass boost equalized and modded foamies) which I have altered to have the same basic color as my HD650s.

The thing with the DAC1 that was a concern of mine (granted without hearing it) when I was deciding on which DAC to buy, was that the weight of the instrumental sounds would be less than the Apogee, although the detail of attack, timbre etcs would be incredible. However, I want to feel the weight of a bass section playing Mahler or the density of a low brass section. Maybe those who have access to both could characterize more accurately the presentation of classical music. Something to think about.

cheers,
dshea

 

[Natsuiro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dshea_32665 The thing with the DAC1 that was a concern of mine (granted without hearing it) when I was deciding on which DAC to buy, was that the weight of the instrumental sounds would be less than the Apogee, although the detail of attack, timbre etcs would be incredible. However, I want to feel the weight of a bass section playing Mahler or the density of a low brass section. Maybe those who have access to both could characterize more accurately the presentation of classical music. Something to think about. cheers, dshea

I have heard both and I can confirm that the Apogee has more weight than the Dac1. It sounds alot more full sounding. I can't say that one sounds better than the other since I think they are different and personal preference would play in a great deal. But to be honest, I really like them both. I can't really decide which I want since they both have their strengths and I just love them both =P