Best subwoofer to hook up to Audioengine 5s (and a couple of other random ?'s)
Jul 25, 2007 at 4:01 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 25

Ender Wiggin

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I just bought these after reading many excellent reviews and reading some topics here. A few quick questions:

1. Is it worth it for me to buy an iPod dock? I heard that connecting the speakers to the line-out in the dock instead of the headphone jack on the iPod will definitely make the sound quality better?

2. Should I leave the iPod at one volume and adjust the volume on the speakers, or the other way around? What volume should I leave the "set" one at, full?

3. If I wanted to get a nice subwoofer to connect these to sometime in the future, any recommendations? The speakers will mainly be used in a dorm room, although in the future they'll move into an apartment with me.

4. Speaker placement. About how far apart should they be and how symmetrical should they be in comparison to the rear wall and side walls?

5. How's the sound quality if I used an Apple Airport Express to send the music wirelessly from my computer to my iPod? Could this be a better option than buying the iPod dock, especially with iTunes on a laptop being easier to navigate through than the tiny iPod screen?

Thanks.
 
Jul 25, 2007 at 4:45 PM Post #2 of 25
I would go with a line out dock (LOD) terminated to a mini cable.

unfortunately, judging by the tech specs (see: http://www.audioengineusa.com/tech.htm)

it does not look like it's possible to connect a subwoofer to the speakers, but I may be wrong.


congrats on a nice little set up, be sure to give up impressions once you get them set up.
 
Jul 25, 2007 at 4:52 PM Post #3 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by terance /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I would go with a line out dock (LOD) terminated to a mini cable.

unfortunately, judging by the tech specs (see: http://www.audioengineusa.com/tech.htm)

it does not look like it's possible to connect a subwoofer to the speakers, but I may be wrong.


congrats on a nice little set up, be sure to give up impressions once you get them set up.



Ok so the official Apple dock will work fine, and when you say mini cable you mean the 1/8" one right? Thanks for the quick answer.

And they recently added RCA outputs to the speakers, the old pictures on the site haven't been updated yet. See this.

It'll be another month before they get set up in the dorm room but I'll try to post my impressions, even though I'm not much of an audiophile so they might not be very good. Any advice on speaker placement as well? Like how far apart and how symmetrical compared to the rear and side walls.
 
Jul 25, 2007 at 5:32 PM Post #4 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Wiggin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ok so the official Apple dock will work fine, and when you say mini cable you mean the 1/8" one right? Thanks for the quick answer.

And they recently added RCA outputs to the speakers, the old pictures on the site haven't been updated yet. See this.

It'll be another month before they get set up in the dorm room but I'll try to post my impressions, even though I'm not much of an audiophile so they might not be very good. Any advice on speaker placement as well? Like how far apart and how symmetrical compared to the rear and side walls.



I would ask others about a subwoofer to fit into that speaker combination, I don't have a subwoofer with my set up, so no first hand expierence with it.

as for speaker placement, i know the left and right channels should form a equiladeral triangle (you being the last point), and that they should be atleast one foot from a wall, anything past that and you'd have to ask someone else.



hope this helps.
 
Jul 28, 2007 at 8:54 PM Post #8 of 25
"Speaker Placement
There could be undreamed of performance lurking within your system, just waiting to be tapped! What's that you say, better sound than I have now? Most likely, yes. While some of you have been fastidious in your approach to speaker placement, the plain truth is that most of us do not know how (or do not take the time) to properly position our loudspeakers. I hope to help alleviate this situation with the information that follows.

To preface, let me say that an article on "correct" speaker placement may be impossible to write. That is because every situation (and, to a certain extent, every speaker) requires a different approach to optimization. Further, ones personal preference may suggest departure from the norm. Fortunately, there are some helpful guidelines that we can use to aid us in our quest for perfect sound.

The home environment presents a multitude of problems/considerations in choosing a location for our speakers. Room layout, furniture, aesthetics, accessibility by children and pets and, not to mention our sometimes contrary domestic cohabitant(s)! The Wife Appeal Factor (WAF) has become a most important gauge in making a decision. To keep things simple, we will concentrate upon the ideal, and assume you have unlimited freedom. Please alter the suggestions to conform to your situation.

To better understand the terminology and the reasoning behind the recommendations, let us first explore a few basics of acoustic theory.

A room affects the sound of a speaker by the reflections it causes. Some frequencies will be reinforced, others suppressed, thus altering the character of the sound. If we were to listen to our speakers outdoors (or inside an anechoic chamber), much of the coloration we’ve been used to hearing would disappear. This is a major reason loudspeaker designers test their creations in such an environment, not wanting their design decisions to be influenced by the colorations of any given room. The real world, however, requires that our speakers co-occupy our living quarters, therefore we must deal with the room as a significant contributing factor.

In any listening environment, what we hear is a result of a mixture of both the direct and reflected sounds. Direct sound travels straight to our ears from the speaker diaphragms. Reflected sounds are many, bouncing off most any hard surface and reaching our ears after the direct sound. In general, the direct sound from the speakers are primarily responsible for the image, while the reflected sounds contribute most to the tonality of the speaker (richness, leanness etc). Any boundary surface (back wall, side wall, floor) can cause a reflection, and all need to be considered during placement. The trick is to place the speaker (and/or treat the room) in a location that will take of advantage of the desirable reflections while diminishing the unwanted reflections.

On to specifics.

Distance to side wall and back wall. There are two acoustic characteristics we're dealing with here: bass and soundstage. It's well known that the closer a speaker is to a boundary (wall, floor, ceiling) the more bass reinforcement . Changing the location in relation to these surfaces will dramatically affect both the quality and quantity of the bass. Note: moving the listening position can have as much affect on bass as moving the speaker. The speakers excite room modes which create low frequency standing waves. Because of their long wavelengths, these waves are present regardless of where the speakers are located. Moving the listening position however, determines whether that point is with relation to areas of additive or subtractive bass pressure. If you have the option, try moving the listening chair a foot or two in each direction to find the optimal position.

With regards to soundstaging, you'll find that depth is dramatically influenced by rear wall proximity. Increasing the distance from the speaker to the wall behind will increase soundstage depth. However, pulling the speaker too far out may degrade focus. In most cases, room layout dictate a maximum distance the speakers will be allowed to intrude into the space, but experiment to as a great degree as possible.

Most speakers need to be a minimum of a foot or two away from the side and back walls to reduce early reflections (early reflections reach the listener out of step with the direct sounds, causing image degradation). Distance to reflective surfaces, speaker radiation pattern and toe-in all contribute to the amount and intensity of early reflections.

Differences among speakers can also influence positioning. A planar, for instance (which radiates sound both front and back with null points to the sides - a figure-of-eight pattern), may be less critical of a nearby side wall, but very critical of the distance to the back-wall. Just the reverse is true for many dynamic designs whose propagation pattern is mainly to the front, with some to the sides and little to the rear (cardiod pattern).

You'll find that the side wall distance will affect both soundstaging and tonal balance. In general, proximity to the sidewall will more influence midrange balance while the distance to the back wall will have more impact on bass.

It is most important to insure that the distance to the back and side walls are unequal. Do not place the speaker, say, 20" from both back and side walls. That said, be sure both speakers are set the same; symmetry is very important. By that we mean if the left speaker is 20" from the back-wall and 30" from the side-wall, try to place the right speaker in the same way. This may not be possible in all situations, but do your best to give each speaker a similar acoustic environment.

It is imperative that the distance from your listening position to each speaker be absolutely identical. Physically measure the distance to insure accuracy. Difference of less than ¼" will be audible in better systems to careful listeners. Accurate measurements here are critical in determining the image quality of the speaker system. Note: After you have established accurate distance with a tape measure, try using a string (with one end taped to middle of the back of listening chair) to check distance from the listening position to a specific point on each speaker, say the tweeter.

Distance between the speakers will be determined by the distance to your listening position, the particular speaker you own and, to a great measure, your own personal preference. I generally prefer to start with an equilateral triangle, the apex of which is located at the listening position, with the two speakers forming the base line (here, speakers placed 6' apart would suggest a listening position 6' away), and experiment to produce the best soundstage. Note: Some manufacturers recommend a specific measure for speaker separation. Use this measurement, if available and your room permits, but remember that any recommendation is only a starting point. You'll find that increasing the distance between the speakers will widen the soundstage (until, at some point the center image falls apart), decreasing the width will narrow the stage and increase center focus. As mentioned previously, this is partly subjective. I listen to a lot of female voice and a strong center focus is really important to me. You may concentrate of orchestral works and prefer a wider stage while willing to sacrifice some specificity of image. Select recordings with which you are very familiar. My personal preference is toward simple recordings with good, even spread across the stage and a strongly focused center image.

As discussed previously, the distance to the side walls affects (mainly midrange) tonal balance. As we move the speakers closer or further apart, the relationship to the side walls change. Further, the proximity of one speaker to the other has influence on tonality as well.

Toe-in depends on three factors: the particular speaker you have chosen, the room and your personal preference. Some speakers sound best with little or no toe-in, others may require a great deal to perform properly. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations or, lacking those, start with no toe-in and begin turning the speaker inward (pointing more toward the listener) until the right amount of center-fill is obtained, without sacrificing soundstage width. Note: Toe-in and distance between the speakers are often interrelated. You may find that it will be necessary to revisit the distance between your speakers after you have experimented with toe-in.

Tilt, (both fore and aft and left to right) also can be very important in influencing the sound of a speaker. Although most speakers today should be level, some designs recommend specific tilt (generally rearward) for proper imaging. I recommend starting level, and experimenting from there, if necessary. Use a carpenters level for accuracy, and remember to check both front to back and side to side.

Listening Height. Every speaker has been designed with a specific listening height in mind. Generally speaking, your ears should be on a line with a point midway between the tweeter and woofer (two-way) or tweeter and midrange (3 way). Again, consult the manual for specific recommendations.

Summation


Experimentation is the key to optimum results. Trial and error will tell you a great deal about how the speaker reacts in your environment and help you to better balance strengths and weaknesses of each position you try.

The goal in determining the position in the room is to excite as few of the standing waves as possible. A number of sources have suggested formulas to find rough placement. Here a couple I’ve seen. Where x is the distance from the side wall to the center of the speaker and y is the distance from the back wall to the center of the woofer. 1) x = (0.277) x (room width), y = (0.450) x (room width). If this puts the speakers too far out into the listening room use x = (0.277) x room width, y = (0.353) x room width. 2) x = (0.276) x (room width), y = (0.618) x (ceiling height).


Once you have found a rough position, place two pieces of masking tape on the floor, one marking distance to back wall, another noting positing from the side wall. Mark the tape in one-inch increments. This will allow you to move each speaker exactly the same amount, without having to re-measure each time.


Exact distances are critical! Always use a tape measure, half an inch can make all the difference in the world.

Bear in mind that the best location for creating a spacious soundstage, may not be the ideal location for bass. We are searching for a balance, a compromise of parameters that comes closest to our personal definition of ideal.

When setting up new speakers, don’t rush through the process. Take your time and slowly find the ideal location over a few weeks of listening. Pressing to find the right position can be very frustrating. Also note that the sound of the speakers will change during break-in. Play the speakers for at least 100 hours before fine tuning placement.

If you’ve already placed your speakers, but did not put much effort into the process, spend some time tweaking your speaker set-up. I think you’ll be very pleased with the results."
 
Jul 29, 2007 at 5:55 PM Post #10 of 25
Instructions on getting good bass from a subwoofer in any given room usually begin by suggesting corner placement of the subwoofer. And it's true: placing the subwoofer in a corner will equally energize all the room's resonances and maximize the subwoofer's output. However, one of the more bizarre aspects of how subwoofers couple with the specific dimensions of a room -- is that to hear all the bass energy from the subwoofer in the corner of your room, you would have to sit in the corner diagonally opposite the subwoofer!

Clearly, such social isolation won't endear you to family and friends, so compromise is in order. And given the understanding that no room is ideal (not even a room with asymmetrical dimensions), the trick is to combine careful subwoofer and furniture placement (with the possibility of using two subwoofers) to more evenly distribute the deep bass frequencies throughout the room. Then every listener will hear the powerful bass frequencies that bring impact to home theater and music.

The Tech Talk
All subwoofers produce acoustical pressure, and that is what your ear responds to. The only place where you will hear the bass output that your subwoofer produces exclusively is out of doors (or in an anechoic chamber). But soon as you put a subwoofer into a room, the sound waves bounce back and forth between the parallel surfaces of the room, some combining or "adding," which will emphasize those sounds, and others canceling each other out, which results in a null. If you are sitting in a null, you won't hear any deep bass at all. Conversely, if your chair is in a location where standing waves peak, you will likely hear boomy, one-note bass (you won't be able to follow the tuneful bass line of a recording, for example). Sometimes, by just moving a foot or two, the deep bass will "magically" reappear.

As you might suppose, a subwoofer and your particular room work together. It's not just the location of the subwoofer that matters: where you place the sofa and chairs is just as important. What follows are some subwoofer room-placement basics:

The worst place for a subwoofer is in the middle of a room.
The most difficult room shape is square, so if you have the flexibility to choose which room you'll use for home theater or you are building a new home and designating a space for home theater, avoid rooms with equal dimensions.
As you move the subwoofer closer to a wall, the bass output will become stronger.
Bass output will be maximized as you push the subwoofer into a corner.
The closer you sit to a wall, the more pressure your ear will pick up and the greater the bass intensity will be, but it may become uneven-- alternately boomy or anemic as you move in either direction.
Adjusting the distance of the couch or chairs relative to the walls and/or the subwoofer relative to the corner will almost always be beneficial in helping smooth out the deep bass heard at several listening locations in the room.
Adding a second subwoofer won't cure the problem of standing waves or uneven bass, but it will result in a greater number of listeners hearing smoother overall bass in more locations. Try placing the second subwoofer in a location near the wall opposite the first subwoofer.
Avoid rooms with concrete floors and walls. Walls where the wallboard flexes are more absorptive and produce fewer problems with "bass boom." If you can' t avoid concrete walls, add studs and one layer of wallboard to the walls of the room to further aid absorption.
The advice I supplied in a newsletter some time ago, now in the Axiom AudioFile archives is worth repeating:

Move your subwoofer as close as you can to where you sit. If it's a chair, move the chair aside and place the sub in the spot where the chair was. If it's a couch, slide the couch temporarily out of the way and put the sub about where you usually sit.

Play a DVD with lots of low-frequency effects or a CD with plenty of deep bass, the kind that really kicks your sub into serious bass output. Get out the kneepads and crawl about the room in the general area where you were thinking of locating the sub.

Go several yards in each direction--near the wall, out from the wall, towards a corner, away from the corner, and so on--while you listen for smooth and extended deep bass response, free of exaggeration and "one-note" boom. Mark the spot, then move the subwoofer into that position. Now put the furniture back. If you are using two subwoofers, mark two locations and place the subs in those two positions.
 
Jul 29, 2007 at 7:34 PM Post #11 of 25
Ah, while I appreciate the incredible info, I was really referring to the questions in my original post, specifically about recommendations on a good subwoofer to purchase that I can hook up to these speakers I already have.
 
Jul 31, 2007 at 7:35 PM Post #14 of 25
Hmm, I'm kind of looking for the best for my money. I know that's sort of vague, but since it's being used in a dorm room or apartment for casual listening and parties I don't need a super expensive audiophile set-up, but I don't want a piece of junk either. I guess somewhere in the $200-300 range max, but if there's a cheaper one that's a really good value for its price or a slightly more expensive one that's leagues beyond others in its price range I'll consider them.
 

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