[shuttleboi]

I'm currently using the on-board sound card (Realtek ALC1200 chipset) on my new Asus P6T motherboard, but I would really like to buy my first separate sound card.

What's the best sound card for under $250? I will use it for gaming and for listening to music (unamped for now, but maybe an amp later).

Also, does it matter if I get a PCI or PCI-Express soundcard? I know the PCI-E card can deliver more bandwidth, but does it matter?

For example, Creative has a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional for PCI-Express and a Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro for PCI.

 

[compuryan]

If you read around here you'll realize that the best sound quality ultimately comes not from a great sound card, but a high quality external Digital to Analog converter which is fed from a digital-out from the computer, bypassing the Digital to Analog converter onboard the sound card. However if you are trying to keep costs low, buying a nice sound card that has a good Digital to Analog converter on the card can improve the sound over what is integrated on the motherboard. If that is the case I would recommend something like the M-Audio Audiophile USB or the Creative EMU 1212. But for $250 you could afford a decent external DAC.

To answer your question about PCI-X/PCI, no it shouldn't make a difference in quality. The quality difference will depend on the quality of the Digital to Analog converter on the card.

 

[Alydon]

The Audiophile USB and 1212m are good for music, but neither one is exactly what I would call an ideal gaming card.

shuttleboi, for under $250 you'd be hard pressed to find a better option than the Asus Xonar Essence STX. It's $200, good for gaming, sounds incredible, comes with a built-in headphone amp which would be great for you since you don't have an amp yet, and has swappable opamps to further tailor the sound to your taste.

So far everyone who has posted here in the huge Essence STX thread has found it better sounding than every single sound card they've compared it to (except one person who found it "too detailed" and preferred his 1212m), including the X-Fi Xtrememusic, EMU 1212m, Prelude, Xonar HDAV, Xonar D2X, and ESI Juli@. It also beat out the only 2 external DAC's in this price range that I've seen it go up against (an iBasso D2 Boa and a Zero DAC w/ OPA-Earth HDAM).

The only real downsides to it are: 1) that it only has 2-channel (i.e. - stereo) analog outputs so you can't use a 5.1/7.1 speaker setup without an external receiver (unless the speakers are digital), and 2) their EAX emulation (called DSGX2.5) is buggy in certain games, meaning it might crash the game, give you no sound, or will limit you to only EAX2.0 if you have it enabled. But if you're like me and don't normally use EAX than there's no problem.

 

[RCGA]

From what I understand, external USB "DAC's" don't even utilize the full benefit of USB 1.1, so I doubt it would make a difference going from PCI to PCIE...It has something to do with audio not needing a massive transfer speed.

 

[obobskivich]

if you don't read the myths around here, you'd realize that good sound comes from good components, period

there are plenty of great PCI and PCIe cards, that are just as good as "awesome external solutions" (and the primary reason most people argue these solutions as better? "they cost more, they have to be better"), think about it, external solution has to bring its own power, its own casing, everything, the internal card just adds functionality to your existing hardware (for example it doesn't need to provide its own power supply), so why pay more to re-buy features? not to mention that internal solutions have much better bang for the buck


NOW
the PCI vs PCIe debate is more or less null, they're all PCI (some of them just have bridge hardware to work with PCIe, Creative being the exception), I would get something that sounds good and suits your needs, if you aren't buying an external amplifier, Essence STX is a good choice (so is the HT Omega Claro Halo), but if you ARE buying an external amplifier, or have a receiever, or want multi-channel, or so on, X-Fi Prelude, Xonar D2/x, and HT Omega Claro are less expensive and offer the same output quality (if someone really wants to squabble with me over 1-2 dB, go ahead, I just don't understand trolling)

quite simply put, external is not always better (so I'm saying compuryan, you're just perpetuating myth), and PCIe vs PCI is a null issue (PCI-X is something different entirely, and to date I've yet to see a consumer audio card utilize it)

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif NOW the PCI vs PCIe debate is more or less null, they're all PCI (some of them just have bridge hardware to work with PCIe, Creative being the exception), I would get something that sounds good and suits your needs, if you aren't buying an external amplifier, Essence STX is a good choice (so is the HT Omega Claro Halo), but if you ARE buying an external amplifier, or have a receiever, or want multi-channel, or so on, X-Fi Prelude, Xonar D2/x, and HT Omega Claro are less expensive and offer the same output quality (if someone really wants to squabble with me over 1-2 dB, go ahead, I just don't understand trolling)

A few dB difference?
For instance, a D2X has about a 118dB SNR, the Halo about 117 and the Claro is about 117 also. The STX has a 124dB SNR.

The dB scale is a log scale so there is quite a bit of difference and as you can see by the numbers much more the 1-2 dB difference.
squabble away if you like, but those are the approximate numbers for SNR for those cards. We can argue until blue in the face as to what people can and cannot hear but as you said, better components yield better sound.


@Shuttleboi
There are many great cards out there that have very different feature sets, find the one that has the best features for you. There are great external units also, make a list of features you want and look over the avialable cards/external devices. If you really want a card meant for gaming, perhaps the Prelude is the one you sound be looking to as the card has great sound qualty and hardware gaming features.

 

[obobskivich]

I should qualify, if you don't buy the Essence STX, you're wrong in rob's eyes, as its the only board he'll suggest to any user for any scenario, and rob, those are approximate #'s, glad you pointed that out....

like I said, if you have some sort of amplifier, or are getting some sort of amplifier, the STX isn't neccisarily the best route, but if you want an easy all-in-one turnkey solution, the STX isn't a bad choice

 

[compuryan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you don't read the myths around here, you'd realize that good sound comes from good components, period

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif (so I'm saying compuryan, you're just perpetuating myth)

It is true that the internal cards are good and can beat out many of the external converters, you got me on that one. I wasn't trying to make a hasty generalization about all sounds cards, if thats what it sounded like. But as you said good sound comes from good components and the companies making really good components don't use internal sound cards, but external DACs. I believe this is because they are more flexible for hooking up to transport CD players and also take the electronics away from the EMI/RF interference and fan noise which resides inside a computer. Also many external DACs provide their own power from a regulated DC power supply which improves the sound over the DC power supplied from a computer power supply.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuryan /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is true that the internal cards are good and can beat out many of the external converters, you got me on that one. I wasn't trying to make a hasty generalization about all sounds cards, if thats what it sounded like. But as you said good sound comes from good components and the companies making really good components don't use internal sound cards, but external DACs. I believe this is because they are more flexible for hooking up to transport CD players and also take the electronics away from the EMI/RF interference and fan noise which resides inside a computer. Also many external DACs provide their own power from a regulated power supply which improves the sound over the DC power supplied from a computer power supply.

alright, I gotcha, you meant a true D/A, not USB "magic" devices

in which case I do agree, premium audio equipment isn't designed with the computer user in mind, but at the ~$200-$300 price range, internal solutions are still probably the better route (as external solutions at this price range have a lot of their BOM consumed by cheapie wallwarts or similar designs (moving the wallwart inside the box

), fancy enclosures, and so on, and generally target computer users, for example at ~$220 you can get the Firestone Spitfire, which is a great little D/A, but roughly dead comparable to a decent ~$120 soundcard, and the soundcard can do multichannel, so why pay extra?)

and you'll have to forgive me, but I don't buy into the RFI/EMI hype/paranoia

 

[compuryan]

Patrick82 is proof alone that EFI/RFI must exist. the man has enough ERS paper to wrap around the world three times. Actually I'm not sure about it, I haven't really learned enough to know how much an impact it has on sound quality.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuryan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Patrick82 is proof alone that EFI/RFI must exist. the man has enough ERS paper to wrap around the world three times. Actually I'm not sure about it, I haven't really learned enough to know how much an impact it has on sound quality.

actually in one of his latest videos he stated that while he wished he could cover the world, he simply doesn't have the time, money, or ERS paper available (its sad that we both know exactly whats being discussed here...)


with EMI/RFI, the only "issue" is the claim that ALL internal devices will ALWAYS hum regardless of how they're connected, what they're connected to, etc, just because "ITS INTERNAL, IT HUMS", and then you get a slew of "GET USB, IT COSTS MORE, SO ITS BETTER" (this is always how I see it defended as well

) neither of these statements is accurate

now, as far as "some minor RF range interference may be present in the device and cause the music to not be perfectly accurate", well, thats gonna be present in anything, internal or external, because external isn't some magical salvation from the PC (then again, to most people, it is, so it must be true

), honestly there just has to come a point where enough is enough

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif I should qualify, if you don't buy the Essence STX, you're wrong in rob's eyes, as its the only board he'll suggest to any user for any scenario, and rob, those are approximate #'s, glad you pointed that out.... like I said, if you have some sort of amplifier, or are getting some sort of amplifier, the STX isn't neccisarily the best route, but if you want an easy all-in-one turnkey solution, the STX isn't a bad choice

Actually, if you read the thread, I suggested that he go with the Prelude as that is the best card if he is into gaming.
The features he wants, he will need to figure for himself and buy the card that fits his needs the best.
Also in most cases those are measured values.

I also suggested he look at external options also -so as to keep his options open.

 

[obobskivich]

you listed the approximate values from the manufacturers, which are usually taken from the theoretical equipment limits

which are roughly close to the real world figures

I'll admit, I didn't catch the suggestion for Prelude (sorta blended in there, and you do really suggest STX (almost) "all the time")

also, also I think also you should also pick out my jokes sometimes also

 

[ROBSCIX]

No sorry, I suggest many cards based on the users wants.

Again, those are measured values. The manufactures spec limits will correspond as they should.

The spec limits should usually be about 3 dB higher for max values of the DAC's unless the circuit is very bad. Check it for yourself there will usually be a steady correlation.

Why would I suggest a card meant for music/headphone use for a guy that wants a card for gaming? That suggests to me the best fit is the Prelude 7.1 or possibly the Forte 7.1.

 

[shuttleboi]

Thx for you all your replies.

I would like a card that provides great sound in video games as well as for my FLAC audio collection. I know that the EAX is used in a number of games like Battlefield 2, and I'm assuming it will be used more in future games.

Would my best bet be to get the best possible sound card now (to get the best gaming experience) and with digital output, and if the music output doesn't suit my needs, I can get an external DAC later?

If so, my range of choices is from newegg:
Newegg.com - Input Devices,Sound Cards,

I guess I'm just looking for a good card with digital outputs and good reviews. How about these:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series
HT OMEGA Claro Halo XT PCI Interface Sound Card w/ a built-in HI-FI Headphone Amplifier